FFB: RF2 VS Assetto Corsa

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Steven Luppino, May 13, 2017.

  1. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    He is being fast despite not having a valuable information. He should be faster if he had it.
    Are you faster with FFB on or off?

    Nothing. All I am saying is that it is spoiling a valuable information.
     
  2. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    It is not spoiling anything if you add effects on top of existing real forces. If wheel is capable you don't loose anything
     
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  3. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @SPASKIS I can't drive without FFB, but I never have. People who never use it can't stand having it on. Of course that would change with time, and I imagine if I couldn't use FFB anymore I'd adjust to it too. Either way you're still missing rear-end feedback, which you can get with a motion rig / seat feedback of some sort / added wheel FFB of a suitable nature.

    *Note: I responded because someone talking about real drivers having g forces was met with you saying wheel FFB is more valuable, and you don't believe in seat of the pants feedback. I'm not suggesting any particular, and certainly not all available, extra feedback would be beneficial. But I'm sure some would be. As an option.

    **Ok, one more. In rF1 I once tried something: made a plugin which monitored rear wheel grip, and added a small 'tick' to the FFB when a certain grip loss was detected. Made it tick faster with more grip loss. Then tried driving a megane up a particular complex at Toban that I always struggled to find the rear limit on, and after a few goes I found I could do it better. Realistic? Nope. But gave me more info I couldn't feel with the wheel normally.
     
  4. caravan_driver

    caravan_driver Registered

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    The Slips effect in AC appears to be related to that rear grip loss feedback idea.

    I think the first game that added something like that was Forza.
    Those are really useful.
     
  5. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    There was a time I could be faster without any FFB but with the newer wheels and physics of sims like rFactor, AC, AMS, IRacing and even PC if set up right are giving the finer details that give me an insight for more precise driving.
    But I just do it for the fun of it and a reason to talk to you good people!:)
     
  6. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I'm far from being fast, I have a G27 that is far from being strong, but I've noticed that weakening FFB make me faster. The "problem" is that I like FFB more than being fast, I would not play RF2 or any other title if FFB was not so good and fun. Often I fire up RF2 just to feel a bit or FFB, nothing else.
     
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  7. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Basically you are creating an ABS type vibration adding spikes at a given frequency. By using a vibration type indication (which is for sure completely irrealistic) you are making it easy for your brain to differ that vibration from true FFB signal. You could have certainly activated a flashing led to do the same job.

    This IMO is actually an analogic cheat and has nothing to do to "feeling" what rear tires are doing but advising that they are actually sliding. By analogic is that it could be replaced by an on/off indicator.

    For canned effects I would understand that we overlay a continuous function to the true FFB signal making it impossible for the brain to separate both signals due to the lack of a recognisable pattern like the one you created.
     
  8. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    As long as a signal is within the perception thresholds it doesn't matter it it is scaled. The brain has no problem to perceive FFB variations.

    Having a stronger FFB does not provide a better information. In fact, it is more likely to get not only clipping and linearity problems but also dynamic problems of your FFB device being unable to accurately follow a very changing FFB output pattern.

    You have to adjust the FFB intensity so that your device works in the FFB range where it delivers torque more accurately. You also need to take into account that a too strong FFB affects precision in wheel positioning and a slightly slower reaction.

    If you have a 3000€ HiFi music system with 10€ speakers. It will sound better at a lower volume.
     
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  9. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Registered

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    The same vibration can be felt in rF2 with ABS activated. The slider in AC is just an amplifier. Which I personally find useful since my brake pedal, for the sake of me, won’t give this info.
     
  10. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I haven't checked specifically that effect since I rarely use ABS. Before doing it, I would expect that the brake on/off activation of ABS is actually perceivable in front tires and actually translated to Steering Shaft Torque.

    DAM plugin separates FFB output and Steering Shaft Torque I will check if indeed the vibration is a canned effect or if it is actually coming from the tires.

    Interesting subtopic
     
  11. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Registered

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    It’s coming from the tires, or to be more specific from the adherent suspension. Just like in AC. ;)
     
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  12. kolysion

    kolysion Registered

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    assetto has too much slides.
    i can drift with F1.
     
  13. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    I can't even begin to describe the criticism I got for saying that in AC.
    But at the same time it has too much/wrong traction in the back end while the front, rolling tires are plowsteering.
     
  14. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    Ive been playing the PC2 update pretty much all weekend when simming and the FFB in PC2 isn’t actually that bad imo. When i then went back to AC it felt all springey like one bit spring pushing/pulling the wheel, It feel really vague, i was lost for words as i just bought the RSS mods, and now i feel underwhelmed with AC ffb because of PC2 lol!!



    Im stunned about ac it has the physics but the ffb just feels very self aligned heavy or weight orientated!



    PC2 does actually feel quite realistic. Most of these do its how the ffb is in the wheel that alters my opinion!
     
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  15. Mister Bronze

    Mister Bronze Registered

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    I struggled a bit going back to AC after trying rF2. The FFB was so different and just felt more natural in rF2. I felt I could understand and control what the car was doing better and therefore my driving experience is improved.

    I do think AC has great weight shift feel and though I did like how the wheel went light when slipping I think now having experienced rF2,PC2 and RRRE maybe it's a bit overdone. Or maybe that's because I'm always slipping!

    I too have spent the last few days with PC2 as I have finally got some reasonable FFB settings in place. It's only taken 6 months of trying then leaving it then trying again. 1.4 seems a good step forward, I've done a couple of 30min multiclass races in the Ford GTE and I have to say the overall package felt really good. FFB and physics wise I'm going to call it 'rF2 lite'.
     
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  16. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    thats a good shout..

    theres a few issue like AI not pitting in small wet races (but that happens in rf2) and the obvious penalty system, but yea i would like to agree with your rf2 lite statement..

    i had a pitstop last nite, and the pit crew told me they dropped a wheel nut, PC2 has a great raceday atmosphere to it, something these sterile sims could learn from. But theres something about AC ffb on a t300 i just dont like, feel like the ffb is based on g forces more than tyre feel.
     
  17. caravan_driver

    caravan_driver Registered

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    You probably remember this.

    "I think this explains a bit (personal opinion) the springy feel of AC FFB, making it go full force as soon as you start steering (though this also depends on the suspension geometry), and already drops an important amount of force when you are cornering at grip peak."

    And in the end it seems that wasnt the only thing that caused the FFB to feel sgringey in the hands of some people. Because it was corrected long ago.
     
  18. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    In pc2, is it normal that during braking the wheel pulls constantly to left and right. And is there a way to get rid of that effect.
    I got the ffb to feel pretty good otherwise, but that back and forth movement during braking makes it very tiring to drive with osw.
     
  19. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    ah i know why ac felt weird I, I forgot to enable the gyro ffb. Helps with the springy feeling. And that rss gt mod wow I recommend it.
     
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  20. Ace Pumpkin

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    Completely disagree with the gyro, the RSS GT1 mod is great though.
     

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