Feeling of certain cars (FFB specific)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GTFREAK, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. GTFREAK

    GTFREAK Registered

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    I stated this in another thread, but thought that it might be more appropriate to give it it's own thread since it may be a larger issue.

    Some cars in rF2 feel very very good and others feel...well... not so good.

    I don't know if it's the specific setup that's causing some cars to feel "dead" as far as feedback is concerned, or if there is just something wrong with the car itself and build.

    The Megane (for me) has very little feedback. I can't feel what it's doing as I can with other cars. Take the Clio for example. The Clio has outstanding feedback. I can feel every little bump, curb, slide, and everything in between. Same goes for the Formula Renault and the recent Formula 2 addition. Those cars have some awesome feedback.

    The Megane, ISI Formula, and Nissan GTR all have very little feedback compared to the above mentioned vehicles. This could be due to a couple of factors. One could be the setup. I have not messed with any setups at all in rF2. Perhaps this is why I am getting such a lack of feedback. Or it could be the way the car is supposed to feel, although I highly doubt this was intended.

    Does anyone else feel the same way? Are there some cars that give you great feedback and others that are just blah?
     
  2. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    isnt this a repost?
     
  3. GTFREAK

    GTFREAK Registered

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    Is it?

    The other thread I posted was about General FFB weirdness with one particular car. I was trying to figure out if my wheel was bad or if the car itself (and track) was the cause.

    This thread is more of a general feedback thread on some of the cars and how they feel using FFB. I suppose I can see how they could be confused as the same thing.
     
  4. 88mphTim

    88mphTim I'm new here Staff Member

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    Is the FFB difference related to cars with and without power steering?
     
  5. GTFREAK

    GTFREAK Registered

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    Tim, I'll have to check on that. I didn't make that correlation, but I'll do some more tests and post my results.

    Do the Megane, Nissan GTR, and Formula ISI all have power steering? Do the Clio, Formula Renault and Formula 2 not have power steering?

    Would be interesting if this was the cause.
     
  6. 88mphTim

    88mphTim I'm new here Staff Member

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    AFAIK all the newer cars do, but I'll see. It could be that you feel the difference in front wheel camber, etc. There can be some negative forces. Either way, I'll link the thread to the devs.
     
  7. GTFREAK

    GTFREAK Registered

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    I'll try testing the Megane, Nissan GTR and Formula ISI at Mills Metropark and give my results compared to the Clio, Formula Renault and Formula 2 cars.

    I believe it's turn 3 or 4 that gives me the best feedback because of the bumps in the road leading up to the corner that's just before the straight. I'll see if I can give you an example in a picture of which corners I mean to give you more specific feedback.
     
  8. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    I think we've 3 major factors affecting the FFB and the steering wheel behavior;

    1) Car suspension geometry (.PM file)
    2) Caster/Camber angles (.HDV)
    3) NominalMaxSteeringTorque (.HDV)

    Of course they're much more but these 3 can get you opposite feelings between different cars...so we need to keep in mind every car is different in many areas. This doesn't mean everything is 100% correct...but we can't get the same FFB driving a Clio or a Formula 1. Pretty obvious...:)
     
  9. GTFREAK

    GTFREAK Registered

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    I'd like others to test this as I did with the cars mentioned above.

    The FFB with the Clio, Formula Renault and Formula 2 cars all have excellent FFB in this specific corner. Now, it doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with the cars or the FFB, but I am just trying to get a sense of what others are feeling compared to what I am feeling on my end. I tried softening setups and stiffening setups and neither made any difference.

    Take the corner marked below at maximum speed (A speed where you won't crash of course;) ) and compare the FFB to the above cars with these cars: Nissan GTR, Megane, and Forumla ISI. You will not be able to get much speed out of the Formula ISI, but it will work for this test.

    If I'm correct, most people will notice a significant difference in FFB when comparing these sets of cars. Make sure to test the groups in order. For example:

    Group 1) Formula ISI, Nissan GTR, and Megane
    Group2) Clio, Formula 2, and Formula Renault

    Test one group and then test the next group to compare the difference in FFB. I own the T500rs wheel from Thrustmaster. Other wheels may feel a bit different. However, there is an obvious difference in the FFB between these two groups when I tested them at Mills Metropark and other ISI tracks.

    Here's the corner that you'll notice the biggest difference:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    It would also be helpful to have the setups you used so that there is one less variable when testing GT.
     
  11. GTFREAK

    GTFREAK Registered

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    default on all cars. I didn't want any setups used so that the feeling couldn't be blamed on setups. I just wanted to know how people felt about these cars and their FFB using nothing but default settings.
     
  12. GTFREAK

    GTFREAK Registered

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    So I decided to give you guys an example of what I'm experiencing here.

    Below is a graph that shows basically what the Pedal Overlay Plugin shows. It has the Gas, Brake, Clutch, and FFB slider for FFB clipping. The FFB slider is especially useful as it shows what's going on with the FFB for each car.

    I have created the graph to show you how the FFB is reacting to the cars listed. I recorded video of each car that's listed and ran 10 laps on new tires and monitored the FFB slider for each car. With each car the FFB was set to .80. However, the Formula cars had the steering set to 450 degrees instead of 900 degrees.

    After monitoring the FFB slider for each car during those laps I made a graph showing you how the FFB slider reacted to each car during heavy FFB situations. The graph shows the lower and upper extremes when the FFB is reacting to the same exact bumps in the road.

    Now, I do know that each car is going to react a bit differently because each car is different. I'm not going to claim that each car should feel the same. Each different car can give you different feelings, but the FFB upper and lower extremes should be somewhat common to most cars. What happens in between those two extremes is what makes the feelings of these cars different.

    I hope that explanation makes sense.

    As you can see with the graph, after monitoring each car during those ten laps you'll notice that certain cars used more range in the FFB and some didn't. The three cars that I mentioned in previous posts that had excellent FFB tended to use almost the full range of FFB and the other cars mentioned that had lackluster FFB didn't use that full range as you'll see below.

    This is just a rough estimate so keep that in mind. However, I took some time to monitor these and they are pretty close to what is actually happening. Just ignore the Gas, Brake and clutch for now. They are there to show what the plugin shows.

    [​IMG]

    This could be completely intended. However, I just wanted to show what was going on so that I could explain the situation more clearly. You are also probably wondering why the FFB slider is so high. That's because I set it to a height of 300 to get a better range and see if I could pinpoint something more accurately.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2012

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