Fanatec Base V2 - Rumble Strips and Offroad FFB too strong!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Hype_Z, Dec 28, 2014.

  1. Jim Par

    Jim Par Registered

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    About the drI setting on the v2 base, when it's off, it has full damping. When on 5, there is no damping at all. Everything between them it's a gradual step. 5 seems to be the best option if you want the raw thing.
    But I think we're off thread a bit as the problem here is the rumble strips and the off-road FFB. I found that reducing the "Off-road multiplier", decreases a lot the off-road FFB, (grass and gravel), but it doesn't effect the kerbs at all.
    So the main problem for me it's the rumble strips being too strong on the FFB.
    Ofcourse the easy solution to make the rumble strips drivable, is to increase the "Steering torque filter" to a level of "5" or highier but that means you lose the raw FFB you get on the road while using the "0" setting, which in my case, I don't want to lose.
    So atm it's a dead end I think.
     
  2. Hype_Z

    Hype_Z Registered

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    I never tried the drI more than 2. I found the response of thr NSX much much more natural on 2.
    When drifting the wheel usually tends to move much faster IRL. So this means it was a problem with my drI setting being wrong at OFF and in fact rF2 simulates this well. One major gripe i have with drI more than off is that the oscillation is crazy. I tried this earlier in a parking lot, driving aroud 60-70 turn the wheel at 45-60deg, let go and the wheel goes straight real fast, never passing the center. I imagine that at drI:5 replicating the same situation will result in wild oscillation. I will try it later on. I played around with the settings and found as mentioned here that changing the resistance type to friction improves things
    Also tightening the bolt holding the wheel onto the base eliminates the wierd sounds while hitting a rumble strip making it feel more natural.

    Also the off-road multiplier works well, tested.

    The steering torque filter should remain at 0. Already there aren't a lot of road rumble effects.
     
  3. Hype_Z

    Hype_Z Registered

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    Hey Paul,

    I quickly looked at some of the FFB settings on Historic Formulas from one of your YouTube videos and i noticed that the major difference was the steering torque sensitivity. Ill try playing with that value and the drI value and see what it gives.

    I never tried the Thrustmaster but heard only great things about it!
     
  4. Hype_Z

    Hype_Z Registered

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    Ok so I took some time to setup a little experiment about the drift mode and the internal friction of the wheel. My assumptions are that the control friction would be when the wheel is turned off, when no other forces than the mechanical friction of the components act on the wheel.

    I did two experiments because the first one didn't yield any conclusive results.

    I started by using a force gauge to try and find the exact torque required to overcome the static friction of the wheel. I found that at all drift levels as well as OFF and when the wheel is completely off the starting torque needed to overcome the initial static friction is the same. It always hovered around 1.2 pounds.

    When the wheel was off:
    View attachment 15479

    When the wheel had drI set to 005
    View attachment 15480

    Therefore the conclusion is that the drI setting acts only on the kinetic coefficient of friction. I tried pulling the wheel with the force gauge and noticed that it would vary from 1.5 lbs with the wheel completely off to around 1.3 lbs with the wheel at drI 005 but many things could go wrong when I am pulling the force gauge.

    I decided to set up a scenario where the wheel would be pulled by a weight at different levels of drI. The conclusion of my bad experiment was that there is no drI setting to match exactly the resistance you feel when the wheel is completely off. drI 004 is the closest but you can tell from the video, it takes longer to complete the 90 deg turn (I know that the wheel is receiving variable amount of torque due to the fact that the direction of the force changes as the wheel moves but this is a constant throughout all the experiments). drI 005 has less friction (or the wheel is compensating/helping you turn the wheel faster) than when the wheel is completely off. Even by giving it a flick at the end of the video you can tell that it moves waaaay more on drI 005 than on other settings or when the wheel is OFF.

    Here is the video of the setup and of the three 90deg turn for every level.


    One thing is for sure though, drI OFF to 003 has more friction than when the wheel is completely OFF. I believe what makes it hard to figure out is that for all drI modes the wheel is trying to "anticipate" which way you will be turning the wheel and it will add more torque in that direction; this effect being greatest when drI is set to 005. drI 004 seems to be the closest to the natural kinematic friction of the wheel (least amount of damping) at least throughout the 90 deg turn.

    -Hype_Z
     
  5. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    According to your tests, it seems Drift Mode at 5 seems to be like the Drift Mode in the other Fanatec wheels where it artificially tries to speed things up for you.

    Drift Mode on the CSW V2 is becoming a real mess. I'm very seriously looking into getting one if these but I won't until DM is fully sorted and understood.
     
  6. Gerben Bervoets

    Gerben Bervoets Registered

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    I have the same problems with the rumble strips.
    Also the rumble that is created when flat-spotting is annoying in with the CSW V2.
    No solution for it though and in most cars in iracing it is manageble but in AC and RFactor it feels like the tyres are made out of wood. I try to avoid them as much as possible.

    About the DRI setting:
    Thomas from Fanatec said on the iRacing forums that they had to make a change vs V1 because oscilation problems.
    He also mentioned dri-3 is the neutral setting. Dri 4-5 work as the drift mode in V1
    Dri off,1 and 2 create artificial damping.

    If you want to get rid of oscilation you have to put DRI to off hence this is the default. Yes it introduces some dampening but you get used to it and actually the feeling is more realistic when you compare it with real cars.
    Anything higher and the wheel starts to oscilate.


    My CSWV2 settings that work for all games:

    In fanatec driver: 900°/ 100%damping (i believe in RFactor2 though you have to adjust the rotation depending on the car because there is no artificial steering bump stop created like f.e. in iRacing)
    Wheel settings: everything default except dpr and spr to 0/off

    Works like a charm but damn those curbs :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2015
  7. WiZPER

    WiZPER Registered

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    "Also the rumble that is created when flat-spotting is annoying in with the CSW V2."

    Flatspots are supposed to feel annoying... ;)
     
  8. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    ^^^
    That.
     
  9. Gerben Bervoets

    Gerben Bervoets Registered

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    I have to do more testing though but smoothing seems to help.
    have to do more testing on flat-spotting though. I can understand in F1 this would feel terrible.
    My issue was more with road cars and their tyres... Not sure but i thought the effect went in a bit to fast and this combined with the CSWV2 felt.... a bit exagerated (without smoothing).

    Don't get me wrong i like the FFB though but i need to dial in the settings a bit.
     
  10. Flatspotter

    Flatspotter Registered

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    Hey! :D
     
  11. Hype_Z

    Hype_Z Registered

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    Ran across this reading Ben Collins' (the Stig) feedback on Project Cars:

    "I cannot exaggerate how hard the kerbs hit you, but you travel for several seconds in a blur because your eyes are literally rattling inside their sockets. Be great to feel even more of that energy in the Sim! Currently the steering force is very light and could do with being more aggressive/stiffer"

    Seems like I was worrying for nothing all the time... so it seems these "wooden" wheels are doing their job right huh?
     
  12. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    +1

    Most current sims are a complete and utter unrealistic borefest when it comes to "feeling" this sort of stuff, as well as the general roughness and shakiness of racing. IRacing is worst of all. (I'm talking about both, FFB and visual representation).

    Regarding specifically tyre flatspots. I can't begin to tell you just how many times of heard racecar drivers and ex-drivers commentating about how flatspots will "rattle the fillings out of your teeth" and "shake your eyes out of their sockets" and blur your vision so much that you can hardly focus on anything making everything ahead just a blur.

    Real-life is a completely different universe to how little we get our senses - physically and visually - knocked around when playing sims.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2015
  13. Hype_Z

    Hype_Z Registered

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    RFactor 2 has one of the best FFBs out there, true. However, how about we stop taking trash about other sims. Im sure the devs of all of them are passionate people that try to do their best. I mean why wouldn't they! But this **** is hard! Simulation is hard! I think we should just enjoy whichever one tickles our fancy :)

    I'm really curious to try iRacing but from what I heard it requires a bit too much of an investment (time and money).
     
  14. Gerben Bervoets

    Gerben Bervoets Registered

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    There are 2 main flaws in these arguments:

    1. You make no difference between steering rack NM vs G-forces/chassis components
    2. You forget the main reason why some sims/games feel good and others not and this is the magic word 'balance'

    some extra explenation:

    The first question is if we do want all those other forces transmitted through the FFB.... and is this realistic?
    I'm sure some curbs can rattle your teeth out in reel life but should they rattle your teeth out by only using a FFB device sitting at your desk with no other motion-components installed?
    btw for people who like to use the 'realism' argument: did you know the default values for off-track behaviour and values for hitting things are dumbed down in the FFB....
    Why do you think they choose those values as the default setting?

    Secondly it's also more a matter of balance.
    If my wheel is hardly capable of delivering real life cornering forces (steering rack Nm) why would i want to feel the curbs like they do in real life?
    In some RFactor cars there is hardly any force being applied in slow corners (FRenault f.e.) through the steering rack... yet when you go over the curbs the wheel acts like all hell brakes loose..
    This isn't a question of realism. It's a matter of balancing both values. It certainly doesn't feel realistic to me when i go from no force in a corner through a lot of force in a straight line over a rumble-strip.


    btw to get realistic forces we need a direct drive wheel. If you use anything lower then a 15 Nm wheel you can not produce realistic forces all the time in a steering rack...
    The realism argument is just not valid if one of the other values is just dumbed down.
    and the realism argument can never be used if it means it screws up the overall balance.

    Let's say you have a direct drive wheel capable of delivering real life forces? Do you want real life forces when you hit a wall or are you gonna tweak those parameters to make sure you don't brake an a finger?
    Do you want realism if you wreck you car and you have to wait 24 hours before it gets fixed?
    I'm all for realism but i'm also for a pleasant experience and options.... hence i asked if there is way to tone these specific FFB effects/values down (in the same way there are values available for going off-track).

    My last remark can be seen in realtion to previous comments:
    Don't confuse realism with immersion. Is the FFB in RFactor realistic? In some ways yes in other ways not. Does it provide an immersive experience and does it make you believe you drive a car? Yes in some ways, not so much in other area's.
    The reason why some sims feel lifeless is because the software and developers have to take into account what software we use and every developer has different solutions for tweaking those 'realistic' values.
    Some sims focus more on the 200-500 $ market for FFB devices, other companies try to give more options to offer a wider range of solutions (lineair/ non-lineair etc...) and RFactor has a whole range of seperate parameters that can be adjusted to prvide a decent experience for a whole range of wheels. None of those solutions are more 'realistic' then the other though untill you have a powerfull servo-wheel that can deliver the range of raw forces correctly. Untill recently those high-end wheels were not available for the consumer hence the focus on lower end wheels with 'fudged' output values to provide an immersive experience.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2015
  15. Gerben Bervoets

    Gerben Bervoets Registered

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    Thanks for the suggestion Paul.
     
  16. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    I actually agree with your entire post, in-fact, I am one of the most outspoken persons around here when it comes to having more FFB customization options (like the immense amount of tweaking possible with pre-rF2 ISI-engine based sims, or like with what you can do with the SimExperience SimCommander software if you buy their wheel). What I was talking about in my post was more about the visuals and the physical body getting beat-up. I agree with your whole post :)
     
  17. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Hey , so did anyone come up with a final setting for the CSW v2 or did this thread just die off because some of the participants got banned ?
    I find the FFB to be pretty harsh with the V2 in the Formula cars under hard brakes if i have the FFB set just under clipping .
    At low speed there is really low FFB but as speed increases so does the FFB , nice and progressive :)but then i stomp on the brakes and the wheel shudders intensely and i am not sure if it is correct like this or if it is going to harm my wheel ?
    I know comparing Sims is probably not the right way , but driving AMS Formula cars i don't feel this shudder .
    I am using the CSW v2 default setting and just upping and lowering the Car specific FFB Mult , FFB smoothing 0 and min torque 0.0 with vehicle set and on wheel Sen -auto , FFB- 85 , DRI- 3 , SPR/DMP 100 and Wheel angle / Sensitivity -900 and Dampening 100 in Fanatec control panel .
    I hope others have found a great setting for the V2 that they are willing to share .
    I know FFB is subjective but im sure someone has found some settings that will help improve my experience .
    Thanks .

    Edit : I forgot to ask , Is there a detect style system to detect wheel type or do i just select the preset ?
     
  18. Ernie

    Ernie Registered

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    Agree. Even if AMS is using a quiet similar RealFeel solution, IMHO the FFB in AMS is more balanced. You feel every bump, but riding the kerbs isn't nearly that harsh like in rF2. Feels more natural in AMS.
     
  19. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    Sorry, I still pretty new here, where did you find these settings?

    Thanks!
     
  20. Bozak

    Bozak Registered

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    Go to rFactor 2/UserData/player and open Controller.JSON with notepad, everything is there about FFB settings.
     
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