F1 Verstappen Penalty

Discussion in 'Real Racing Discussion' started by davehenrie, Oct 24, 2017.

  1. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I finally got around to watching the F1 race at Cota. The penalty on Verstappen at the end was criminal.
    All I can say is this:
    Zanardi would not be Zanardi with stewards like the ones who penalized Max.
     
  2. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    So how much should a driver be able to cut a corner in making a pass before he gets a penalty for it?

    I wholeheartedly agree that the track limits thing is getting ridiculous, though Verstappen was one of the worst in qual for it anyway. They need to physically stop it being an advantage to run wide, or at least try to (extra row of rumbles obviously didn't work), and then let the drivers do whatever they want. (I understand with bikes they can't put grass and gravel everywhere. So just bolt on some big kerbs. Yes, they can damage cars, and potentially cause incidents that lead to injuries, but so can walls)

    But I don't understand how the same people arguing for consistency on track limits are then saying what Verstappen did was ok - the stewards said in qual they would remove a time if they felt advantage had been gained. Verstappen obviously gained an advantage, because he wasn't passing there without going off the track. So even by the relatively lenient rules they'd been running, he had to get a penalty.

    They need to cut out the 'well if everyone's doing it, it's ok' and the 'if there's no advantage gained, it's ok'. But I think most people also don't want post-session position changes (race or qual), and having times sitting on the list in qual which then disappear because they're disallowed is also annoying. So just provide some physical barriers to going outside certain track extents (quickly), and let everyone go for it. If there were giant sawtooth kerbs half a car width inside that corner (inside of a corner, no reason to be there) Verstappen wouldn't have passed there. He might have got past in the next braking zone, or even into the last corner with a dive, and it'd be a great pass and no one would be discussing anything.
     
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  3. McNolo

    McNolo Registered

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    Formula 1 should contract Studio 397 to insert an anti-cut code in his tracks.:D
     
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  4. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    Agree , some times he has to learn how to lift , his Make the move stick regardless of consequences has plagued his career thus far at his detriment
     
  5. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @bwana I'm not targeting Verstappen at all - though Horner's comments about people cutting all weekend seem to somewhat ignore Verstappen's qual laps perhaps going widest of all - but in this case cutting a corner isn't going wide. Going wide, although it should be stopped to avoid any doubts, in the current situation you can sometimes argue you lost more than you gained. Cutting, especially while making a position, just isn't right. You're gaining time, obviously, because you've made the track shorter.

    It's that old thing - if there was a wall there, half a car width in from the kerb, he isn't going past. They can't put walls everywhere because of safety, but they need to make something that forces people to stay on the track. It's too easy to look at small indiscretions and say na, that's ok... and then there's no clear boundary.
     
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  6. McNolo

    McNolo Registered

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    I read not long ago something about would be technically possible to do a motorsport competition without drivers, then it is clear that it is possible to control the limits of the track automatically.

    Knowing this, I think it would not be too difficult to introduce a system that automatically detects when a car leaves the limits of the track and, automatically too, reduce engine power by 20% for 5 seconds (for example). Maybe too expensive?.

    And thinking about it, it would be okey to apply this in rFactor 2 too, right?

    Edit:
    This was what I speak:
    https://roborace.com/
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  7. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    I'm a little biased because I'm Räikkönen fan but nevertheless, I totally agree with Lazza's wise words.

    Young guys like Verstappen have always problems seeing things objectively. Maybe Verstappen could have made his move to the last corner but that was not a place to try to overtake even though Räikkönen was lazy with his defending, he should have definitely chosen a tighter line as it was obvious Verstappen is trying to attack.

    What I want to see in the future: More grass and sand plus smaller penalties for cutting. Maybe 2 seconds time penalty and a drive through after third cut.
     
  8. Jka

    Jka Member Staff Member

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    This brat has serious problems to obey rules.

    If you cut and get advantage (like overtaking Räikkönen in this case), you get penalized. Simple.

    Another example (in this race only!) was on lap 52. On turn 12 he overtakes Bottas and pushed him out of the track, which is very illegal move too. For some reason he got away from it.

    FIA Sporting regulations, section 27.3

    Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason.
    Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
    Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the race director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track.


    Now Max and his father whines all available media in the world how FIA or stewards are biased against them etc. Pathetic.
    Before this kid comes great driver and maybe even champion, he needs to learn two things. Obey the rules and respect other drivers. Looks like he is so hard-headed that every single lesson comes to him hard way. Remember last year's Mexican GP?

    I agree that these current standards racetracks encourages cutting everywhere. And these new generation drivers have been learn to exploit these opportunities efficiently. But when they got caught, then its better to shut up instead of whining all around.
     
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  9. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    IMO Verstappen did an awesome illegal pass. Was his penalty fair? For sure. Hopefully stewards will become professional and not actual FIA system where stewards change every race. If someone should be replaced that would be Charlie Whiting: the responsible of Jules Bianchi's fatal accident.

    Furthermore, I am tired of seeing drivers pushing rivals out of the track. IMO the dirtiest move a racer can do. A sign of lack of respect to the rival. In some tracks yielding to unnecessary dangerous situations.

    Verstappen himself passed Bottas that way. We have seen that many other times with very different outcomes in terms of penalties. Apparently only Magnussen gets penalties for this.

    Sadly TV commentators as Pedro Martinez De la Rosa fail to properly judge this situations. They say that squeezing the rival is the way to go. They seem not to be aware of actual rules.
     
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  10. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Raik looked like he wasn't sure how to act. Didn't do the Champagne spray(much) Since Max is usually now the 1st or 2nd most popular driver (along with Ricchardio) I wonder if he was trying to tone down his participation to avoid antagonizing the Orange flaggers. Of course he's never really been THAT excitable up there.
    as far as the lazy defense...Hobbs on the USA broadcast or possibly Machet guessed his tires were shot because for the last two laps he had great difficulty keeping his speed up in the last sector.
     
  11. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    I think it was that other red car in front of Kimi ;)
     

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