F1 80's Mod project seasons pack (historical demo released)

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by trollray, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. trollray

    trollray Registered

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    @RoWo , ok i know what it is spec map is not exactly the same as albedo)
    Not a bog problem a saw it on mclaren but not on tyrrell, thanks for the report
     
  2. Lars

    Lars Registered

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    thank you very much for this great pack and update trollray, dreamed of an HE for month.. and thx also to ChiefWiggum creating the fantastic basic mod!

    only two suggestions:

    - i noticed the ags-jolly doesnt show up suspension in cockpit view (if someone is driving this car at all...). ;)

    - and maybe it is possible one day to adjust left and right mirror separately in these cars (Ctrl and Left Alt), till now they are adjustable only simultaneously, which is a pity.

    Bernd discribes this issue among others in the mirror adjustment thread (page 2):

    This whole thing is a bit complicated, because it starts with the question if the the mod has properly made mirror meshes.
    They have to be splitted, that every mirror is a single mesh and use proper names and materials to be adjustable.
    The next thing is the mapping, where especially in converted mods, the mirrors often show a distorted "picture".
    And also the used texture can cause problems.
    If, for example, the mirrors are mapped to the default mirror texture, that has a size of 1024 x 64, but, for whatever reason, the mod uses an own mirror.bmp with another size, you also get a stretched mirror
    So it depends on "what is wrong" with a specific mod.

    thx
    Lars
     
  3. trollray

    trollray Registered

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    **New update available**(ver 1.1)
    Change note :
    - All 86 cars have better specular effects (more "integrated" visualy to the tracks)
    - Corrected some textures problem (like tyrrell)
    - Corrected pit entry in hermanos.

    @doddynco , ferrari corrected in showroom, still a mistery for the benetton but working perfect on track ;s
    @Lars , not fund yet the solution for the missing suspentions? still investigating. However, even AGS look better now ;)

    Cheers
     
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  4. trollray

    trollray Registered

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    1979b.Jpg 1979c.Jpg 1979A.Jpg Don't know what hapens to my pc...Sometimes he do some strange things... ;) :p What do you think?
     
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  5. CatAstrophe_05

    CatAstrophe_05 Registered

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  6. trollray

    trollray Registered

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    yes it is.
    I made it as a test and it worked.
    So i'll probably do that for all 79 cars (not a big work, i'll stay focus on 80's championship edition)
    and will contact the author of this conversion.
    Then he will use my work or not.
    I'm not doing a new 70's championship edition (for now), but who knows how things are working in the future and the
    modding community ;)

    Cheers ;)
     
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  7. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

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    Some progress on car specific physics - Benetton is now complete with car specific physics and qualifying trim. The interior audio is done but not the exterior (that's my next job).

    I've tried my best to accurately represent the historic car in terms of grip, drag and power, therefore you will need an extemely good lap in order to beat the real Q times set by Berger and Fabi (I'm still a bit off their pace on what I would consider a very good lap.)

    Q trim has around 1380bhp@11,600rpm@5.6bar vs race trim which is around 1020hp@11,000rpm@3.5bar. You won't be able to finsh a full GP race on full boost as you will run out of fuel - around 900bhp is sustainable.

    The Q tyres are being updated and are now really very sticky (they were a bit lacking before). However they are also very delicate and can over heat - and they really drop off fast over 90degreesC (70 being optimum). Low pressures will tend to heat the tyres even more, especially on fast circuits - so no more 'low pressure is always fastest'. There is one further revision coming to the Q tyres and that basically involves increasing the affected pressure range. On really quick tracks you may want 25psi in the rears to keep them cool enough (15psi being the lowest - appoximately 1 atmospheric pressure, probably suitible for Detroit or maybe Monaco). I need to run them through the QSA analysis thing which takes ages but once it's done they will be on the latest model, and ready and waiting to be destroyed in 2 laps.

    You can see in the video I cook the rears too much on the outlap, and this then causes the tires to become very close to fading halfway round the fast lap. On top of this, the car will be right at the edge of its ability to disipate engine heat. Tyre pressures and temps are critical - as is downforce as this will contribute to heat build up.

    Such changes will require an AI rebalance so I think Trollray will be wanting to hold this from you guys until he can have more of the grid with their car specific physics. Good news is that it is on the way.

     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  8. trollray

    trollray Registered

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    Wow, i'm very pleased to work on this with @doddynco.
    Thanks for the work done and passion man!
    I will have more work of course with rebalancing the ai and also need to work on forcing updates for ai in qualy.
    Maybe @Marcel Offermans , with the ui evolution, having "updates version" choices on the fly that we can force the ai to use can be a very usefull tool ;)
    (as fuel and other setups things btw )
    But, it's a needed step to take advantage of the new physics and engines by Doddynco.

    Another good news is that i was doing a bit of work on 79's cars.
    Now they have the new shaders and look better of course.
    @Postipate authorized me to send them on steam and i'll do it asap.
    Thanks to him. He will give me also LE physics for those who want to make some league races.

    I'm not doing more on 79's for now because we are busy with 80's Championship Edition first but like this, people will be able to have fun already.

    Last but not least, i'm learning all guides to make better use of shaders and other parts in tracks and car graphics.
    When ready with that, i'll post a wip screenshots but that could take a time till we are ready and relaese a new update on this mod.
    Anyway, the next update will be big and a very exciting stuff i guess ;)

    Cheers
     
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  9. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

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    Hi guys,

    Here's a quick update on the progress so far - a bit of a teaser on what to expect in the next update in a few weeks time.

    The 4 cars listed are the ones which have my attention at the moment; Benetton, Brabham, Lotus, Ferrari.

    The Benetton has been the main focus and so once I get everything ironed out here, the same principles will be applied to the other cars. I'm really happy with the new physics - the car feels so alive and is much more communicative than the old chassis. The underbody has been properly positioned and ride height is now a major factor - If you set the car too high you'll lose precious downforce, too low you'll be scraping too much - you can hear the car scraping and grip drops away.

    I've also trimmed down the tuning options as they were far too broad, and in too finer steps. The new options are more meaningful and digestable - they're already in a well defined range (less suseptible to user error). For example, the packer options use to have 55 settings!, for 5mm up to 32mm in 0.5mm increments - it's just not necessary and I doubt Benetton had anywhere near that amount of rubber stoppers at their disposal. Now we have 3 options: 14mm, 18mm, 22mm. So far, this is for Benetton only but it will be applied across all vehicles (in their unique differing ranges of course).

    The other 3 cars have had lots of attention too. Performance wise, they are basically complete - engine, downforce/drag ect.

    It's an unholy amount of stuff i'm chewing on here so I'm just going to focus on getting these 4 vehicles upto 'v2'. That will make a framework to work from for the other cars.

    I'm pretty sure I've missed some things out but anyway:

    Benetton v1.9:

    Race & Qually & Trackday Engine complete

    Power & boost historically correct with vacuum simulation

    Boost gauge and tachometer corrected

    Complete internal and external sounds v1

    Revised suspension geometry.

    HDV physics adjustments (mostly complete) with basic aero and balancing complete. Later enhancements coming are based around aero instabilty/stall effects. Not for this version.

    Rationalisation of tuning options.

    Upgrades include;
    Race, Qually and Testday baseline setups
    Shifter type selection


    Brabham v1.5:

    Race & Qually & Trackday Engine complete

    Power & boost historically correct with vacuum simulation

    Boost gauge and tachometer corrected

    Complete internal and external sounds v1

    HDV physics adjustments (in progress) with basic aero complete

    Upgrades includes: Race, Qually and Testday baseline setups
    Shifter type selection.
    5,6,7 speed with physical effects and reliability factor


    Lotus v1.5:

    R & Q Engine complete

    Power & boost historically correct

    Boost gauge and tachometer corrected


    Temporarially rocking the Ferrari sounds but will definetely have it's own in the future.

    Preliminary HDV physics adjustments

    Upgrades include;
    Race, Qually and Testday baseline setups
    Shifter type selection.
    5,6 speed gearbox selecton added, with physical effects and reliability factor

    Ferrari v1.5:

    R & Q Engine complete

    Power & boost historically correct

    Boost gauge and tachometer corrected

    Complete sounds already on the workshop version.

    Preliminary HDV physics adjustments

    Upgrades include;
    Race, Qually and Testday baseline setups and
    Shifter type selection.
    5,6 speed gearbox selecton added, with physical effects and reliability factor

    Tyres - Qually compound

    Smaller operating window requires proper warm up lap/s and careful heat/wear management.

    Limited pressure range (the real tyres were optimised for 15psi) The allowable range in the garage will be 12-17psi. The tyres will be less effective before their optimum pressure (WIP lol, I think I can get this one figured out - RF2 certainly doesn't want to make it easy)

    Added tyre blanket tempreture selection (30C,45C,60C,75C) Useful for when track temps are in RF2. 60C is the standard for the 25C static track temp we have currently. You can't just set the blankets high and chill on your warm up lap because you will need to bed the tyre in, and if you try to bed them in and they're already hot you will overheat them and they will be shot. 30C is only going to be usefull once we have active track temps, so if the track is 50C (not uncommon even in europe) you will want to start at a low base temp to keep them as cool as possible whilst bedding them in. Anyway, lots to think about here as a driver, and you will probably find situations were the Q tyres just arn't as fast as the soft tyre due to a string of condtions - this happened a few times during the '86 season. Mostly though, and when they are optimum, the Q tyres will grip like a rabid gorilla.

    More susceptible to poor road conditions - not effective on a green track.

    Added new tyre model entries to TGM and rendered to latest model

    Lot's of other little changes - too many to list.

    Tyres - Race

    No changes yet, but the idea here is to make hard tyres more useful at more laterally demanding/downforce tracks, with higher operating temp and more wear resistance. Spa, Österreichring, maybe Imola too.

    The softs will overheat at those tracks and wear prematurely. They will be more usefull for Detroit, Monaco and possibly Hockenheimring and even Monza(with a low downforce setup) , where you ultimately spend less time leaning on the tyre.

    Mix and match compounds for each wheel.

    Again, the pressure will be limited to a smaller defined range of 12-17psi. Places more emphasis on compound choice.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
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  10. trollray

    trollray Registered

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    So many thanks Shaun ;)
    Fantastic work!
     
  11. trollray

    trollray Registered

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    Hi, just to tell you a bit about my side.
    I'm more confident now with the new pbr shaders and i'm able to make the new textures for it.
    I'm just still in the wait of a 3dsmax version that could work to make the puddle maps.
    For the rest, i think i got it wiith the help of b2m3 from substance designer.
    The bad side is that it is whole bigger work to have all the tracks textures in pbr.
    I'm doing a test with monaco 86 and when finished, i'll show some pics.
    Cheers ;)
     
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  12. trollray

    trollray Registered

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    Hello all.

    Some very important news here.

    As you know, @doddynco and i we are working on updates for this compilation of mods. (86 and 88 )
    The work done for the new update on all aspects of the cars will push these mod to another level.
    We can say already that the word Historical will be right here ;)

    For many reasons, this update will broke the "Championship edition" if we just release a part of this big update.
    But in another way, if we want to achieve all the cars and tracks for a complete new update, you will be waiting too long lol.

    Another point is that the modders rewards are only all the thanks or comments they receive from you ;).
    Considering the amount of work done by Doddy on physics and sounds and what i plan to make in graphical updates, that would be a frustrating long time without any public feedback. (Yes, we love you all lol ;) )

    For this reasons, we will make a "demo" versionof one car that will be released soon.
    (No info for now of wich one, hahaha ;) )

    This demo will be named "Formula One 80's Historial Turbo Era Demo".
    Like this, you will be able to use it, test it and sending some very valuable feedback to us.
    In the same time, the "Championship edition" will stay unbroken and playable for those who use it in leagues or in single player.
    When all will be done, we will merge the final version and name it "Barbie with big..." euh, no "Formula One 80's Historical Turbo Era".

    Hope you will apreciate the work done and stay tuned.
    Cheers,
    (i get back to Barbie now loll ;)
     
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  13. trollray

    trollray Registered

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    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
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  14. trollray

    trollray Registered

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    Btw, don't hesitate to test it and give us your feedback.
    It's a demo but with many completed features already.
    your feedback is a very valuable thing to help us in the dev process.

    Cheers ;)
     
  15. Berger

    Berger Registered

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    Hi Trollray, I am really enjoying 1986-1988 CE mod.

    There is one issuse I noticed so far. It seems that Brands Hatch is too wide. I do not know if you have permission from original autor to to narrow it down a bit.
     
  16. Berger

    Berger Registered

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    Also it seems that boost is not adjustable in 1988
    And AI is very strange. For example Im testing now at Jacarepagua. Gugelmin is fastest. Senna 5th and Prost 6th
     
  17. trollray

    trollray Registered

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    1988 is just as carrera4 made it for now.
    Major part of the update is about graphics for now ;)
    But for the ai, they should normally work good. Have you followed the manual ?
    In practice that can hapen but you need to test it with a complete session in qualy and race. ;) (rf2 rules :p )
     
  18. trollray

    trollray Registered

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    The next one is on the way... Cheers ;)

    bt55c.jpg bt55b.jpg bt55a.jpg
     
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  19. trollray

    trollray Registered

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    It's not that easy i think. The authorisation could be the easiest part lol ;)
    Anyway, not in the near future but i will have an eye on that later ;)
     
  20. Berger

    Berger Registered

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    Thank you. Yes, when I let 1988 AI drive complete practice, they sort themselves out.

    1986 AI is fine.

    Regarding boost, IMO 3 levels are realistic for 1988
    1) Formation/Rain
    2) Cruise race
    3) Power race /Qual

    And only for Mclaren, Lotus, Ferrari, Arrows, Zakspeed and Osella. Because only those were powered by turbo engine. And had a lag, not as much as in 1986, but still had a lag (turbo lag) in 1986 cars that turbo lag is beautifully modelled. So it is rather dissapointing to not have it in 1988 aswell.

    Other cars of 1988, had 3.5 atmospheric engine so did not have boost. And did not have turbo lag.

    IMO this diversity of engines is something that would make this mod completely awesome if done properly.

    Also note that Zakspeed and Osella engines although turbo, were weaker than normally aspirated 3.5L Cosworth and had horrible fuel consumption.
     

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