[REL] F1 2013 Single Player v1.61 (DX 11 compatible, visors, rain update)

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by Frenky, Jul 10, 2014.

  1. Coanda

    Coanda Registered

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    Now that I have had a little more testing time. Frenky I have to say bloody ripa job on the AI mate. I am able to get into some really nice clean battles :cool: What a buzz! I just wish I had my wheel back. I could do with the extra throttle finesse. Still I am having lots of fun on the gpad. Force India on hard tyres is allot of fun.

    Thank you for taking this on.

    @Lgel. Interesting. I havnt driven the ISI master for sometime now. If my memory serves me correctly there were some issues with the inner rear tyre temps & camber. Maybe the donw force levels are fine. It sure would be nice to have some more input from sim drivers and people in the know. How is the centre of gravity worked out? Feel or data?

    What do you think about the RFT tyres in regards to grip & degradation? I havnt done enough high fuel long runs to really comment yet. I wonder if each tyre went up a notch what it would be like to drive. ie Super Softs became Soft, Softs became Mediums etc..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2014
  2. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    I made the same test as you or even worse with RB at Siverstone, SS, rubbered tracks, and full wings, and effectively the car was easy to drive, and I posted similar conclusions to yours, pointing to a possible excess of downforce.

    Then I took time to think about it's meaning, even if Silverstone is a high downforce track, I doubt F1 teams put full wings as in Monaco (no even the same wing), but I am not a track engineer of an F1 team.

    Later I had the idea to compare it to the closer car to an good F1 2013 the FISI in the same conditions, and both car felt very similar. This, plus the fact I compared their lap times at 120 % AI made me delete my post. I compared tyre grip in the tbc of both cars and it was identical for the same specifications of rubber.

    I am not a F1 fan in sims (monoculture until I discovered Rfactor in 2011) even if I enjoy sometimes the difficulty of setting up a car.
    If you add that none of FISI cars report rear tyre temps (If am not wrong) and that they were not very appealing graphically.

    I never race more than 10 laps against AI, so I won't comment on tyre degradation (even less if you factor that your driving style is very important in this aspect - see opposite conclusions on URD thread about the same tyres by different drivers - ).

    As I wrote no RF2 for me until next fall, but I'll have access to a spreadsheet and I'll try to compare diffuser data of Fisi and Frenky's RFT.

    What is sure is that the cars are a lot of fun to drive with medium downforce configurations, I enjoy particularly Portugal GP which is slightly bumpy (real modern Silverstone is to smooth and artificial in my view), and that the cars react logically to tuning.

    I think that the mod is now a lot of fun (try starting from rear and pass slower cars, which is every step harder as you reach better cars).

    Frenky's has done the hard work and it is now very easy for everyone inclined to do so, to fine tune each car playing by example with the diffuser base or drag of wings.

    This is in my view the real strength of Rfactor 1 and 2, if something is not as you think it should be, you can change it to play of line.

    Making AI still quicker is just a matter of raising AI grip bias in tbc as nothing is encrypted.

    You can even easily change tyre degradation parameters, or do the test of changing soft to medium as you state.

    All this changes are easy, they just require notepad to edit text files, the capability to package a new version of the mod, and an awful lot of time to test on different tracks and cars.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2014
  3. buddhatree

    buddhatree Registered

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    Thanks very much for this mod :)

    Two questions:

    1. What level of aggression do you recommend for the AI?

    2. Anyone know where I can get just the RFT track pack without any cars?

    Thanks
     
  4. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    1. In my case between 25 and 50 %.

    2. No, but if you install the mod with tracks you can very easily package each track as an individual location yourself (see packaging tutorial on this site). I tried the tracks time ago and erased them because AI was useless on most of them.

    Cheers.
     
  5. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Speed compared to Formula Master & Marussia

    I made some more tests (with 10 laps fuel), and the top teams are at least 4 seconds faster by lap than the Formula Master (F1 2012) at Portugal venue. Me driving or AI.

    I made a simple test I ran a Frenky's Marussia (with 10 laps fuel) against FISI and I was 1,5s faster by lap than FISI (same for AI), with 30-62 setup (originally made for a Lotus, not adapted).

    The Marussia (with 10 laps fuel) was a pleasure to drive on this track (not very difficult to control).

    I would say that even the Marussia (with 10 laps fuel) is to fast compared to FISI.

    But are FISI the correct benchmark?

    The Lotus (with 10 laps fuel) in my hands is three segonds faster than ISI Marussia 2013, the Marussia (with 10 laps fuel) one second faster than ISI Marussia 2013.

    After working Frenky's diffusor data, I can see that the cars will behave very differently with heavy fuel load than in qualifying configuration as he stated in his release notes, the car loaded with fuel will be much more difficult to drive, and will remain less efficient as fuel load decreases than the same car with the lower ride heights it is possible to run in qualy.

    What I want to say is that a simple test with 10 laps fuel is not enough to have a good evaluation of Frenky's physics.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2014
  6. boxer

    boxer Registered

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    download and installed twice "Version WITHOUT the tracks (0.6 GB)" but I get
    "Damaged mod -" status in Mod Manager
     
  7. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    See post #26, I copy here the comment I made. Just create a new package with exactly the same components and install it.

    P.S. The error of the packaging of the mod is maybe unrelated to showroom (the one included with RFT is nice).
    It happened to me with other mods, and all I had to do was to repackage the mod as is, and the error was gone.
    Are you using the last version of the packaging tool?
     
  8. Coanda

    Coanda Registered

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    G'Day. I have to say that my previous opinion is somewhat shifting. The more I drive & push harder on these cars the more I am starting to think the grip levels are in check. After analysing Fernando's lap and paying careful attention to his throttle and corner speeds this aligned with my speed data. There wasn't no major speed differentials. I also used the hard tyre and analysed Abbey, Copse, Maggotts, Becketts & Stowe corners. I'm not saying I am anywhere near as good as Alonso. The guy is super human.

    Regarding the AI, I have seen some strange behaviour in the pits. Using DRS and going a million miles an hour. I am also using a AI fixed setups which is going well however they do not seem to use the tyre I use in the fixed setup. I am not sure if this is a mod issue or an rF2 issue.

    I am really starting to delve into the setup now. I have been using D.R. T.R.. A really nice challenge. Especially as I don't have my wheel at the moment so am lacking some feel. The biggest challenge I am facing is centre tyre temps. I cant seem to keep them down under the inner temp, especially on the rears. I have tried various camber, roll-bar & tyre pressure options. Any advice is welcomed :)

    FA Lap:
    :cool:

    Still having allot of fun :)
     
  9. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    From information found in this forum, AI is not using your tires (you are speaking of the kind of tire, soft or medium).

    AI uses data from the .tbc file and the car you drive from .tgm (I don't have access to my RF2 computer to have a look at .tgm files).

    From what I read sometime ago from SOMPIR the RFT mod uses ISI tires (FISI or Marussia, I don't know if with added grip). They suffer from the same problems as ISI's F1s relative to tire temps. That is why I didn't really focus on F1 setups. Frenky's physics are subject to the same limitations as all other F1 cars from ISI at the moment.

    I am still working on a spreadsheet to help me understand differences in behavior in comparison to ISI's F1.

    Cheers.
     
  10. Coanda

    Coanda Registered

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    Yeah mate. My fixed setup uses mediums and the AI come out on the hard..

    Oh no, these tyres are plagued. That makes sense why. It would be very appreciated if ISI could release an update.

    Would you share the spreadsheet?
     
  11. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Sent you a PM.
     
  12. Frenky

    Frenky Registered

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    Hello party people,

    Thank you everybody for your questions, answers and feedback. I'm back from my holiday in Belgium and already busy with update v1.18 of my mod. Changelog till now:
    * AI cornering grip is now 0.99 (was 0.98)
    * AI at Monaco??? Simply crashing in the tunnel / Safety car always out --> no solve for that ATM :( (this is most likely not a physics problem, so still no idea how this can be solved)
    * Exaggerate the diffuser effect done in v1.17. Now at very low rear ride heights there is 15-20% less downforce
    * Accordingly, bottoming the car now costs 60% diffuser downforce (was 40%)
    * Slightly decrease base rear wing downforce
    * Very slightly decrease base front wing downforce, as well as the rear flap downforce and drag
    * Very slightly increased the amount of downforce of the front wing per click
    * Radiator cooling even more tricky (thanks to MoTeC)
    * Higher the center of gravity with about 0.5 cm (all cars) (Thank you Coanda for your test and the data!!!)
    * Both mod versions (with and without tracks) now points to the rF2 showroom. However in my case it did not prevent the "damaged mod" error. Everything is still working fine though.
    * Changed minimum mass of the car to 641.8 kg (that was a regulation change from 2011)
    * Slightly exaggerate the 2nd order effect of both lift and drag of both the front and rear wing. Now higher settings creates more drag and reduces the increase in downforce

    As you can read, I decided (until now) not to change the tire grip levels. Because I'm unsure if these levels are wrong and don't have other technical data.
    I'm testing this update now, so expect this update online within 1 or 2 days. With this update, human lap times should be about 3-5 tenths slower; AI slightly less.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2014
  13. Frenky

    Frenky Registered

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    I don't know if it helps you but in my case, these 2 things changed the world for me:

    I have a ATI7750 graphic card. With the latest drivers I noticed a slight improvement, although Sompir's mod still was only playable without many AI cars.
    However, I suddenly decided to use the 64-bit exe of rFactor2 and the mod became playable :)
     
  14. Frenky

    Frenky Registered

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    I do agree with your reasoning, however, I prioritize lap times driven by good human drivers, rather than the AI to make change decisions for my mod. I do agree that only slight changes are nescessary, as I think the basis (v1.17) is already quite good.
    The reason that I doubt that lap times of the AI is a good indicator for how well the mod is, is the following. I noticed some strange things with the AI and their physics. Take for example Monza and let the AI drive the exact same setup as you and give yourself about 30 laps of fuel (about the same as the AI). I came to the conclusion that the top speed of the AI is always about 2 km/h slower than my own top speed. So the AI uses a over-symplified physics system and probably only do use some of the physics setup as you use. Maybe only total mass of car, only rear wing setting and so on (and then they have their own front wing setting and ride height setting, to balance things, which could be the reason for a lower top speed).
     
  15. Frenky

    Frenky Registered

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    You're welcome. Let me just return your question to everybody else here, because I really want to know what you guys think of the tyre degradation. Especially super soft, medium and the wet tyre. I think the grip levels of the tires are oke, do you agree?
     
  16. Frenky

    Frenky Registered

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    Interesting about the aggression level. I myself use figures of 20-25%. Will test higher settings later.
     
  17. Frenky

    Frenky Registered

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    Thank you for your feedback!
    Regarding the AI that uses wrong tyre compounds, yes I can confirm that. But think it is a bug of rFactor2 :(
    The strange behaviour in the pit by the AI: I have never seen this. Can anyone confirm this? Is this also in Sompir's mod the case (if so, than the physics aren't the problem)?
     
  18. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Damaged mod problem.

    I am not an expert on modding nor packaging.

    I suggest you try installing your rfcmp to an empty test directory (I am not speaking of Moddev, nor of a second installation of RF2) with the standard tool.

    Check if the installation in this test directory says damaged mod. If it says so, I suggest you create a new package from the same components installed in this test directory and an higher version number.

    Install the new package in the test directory, and in my case the damaged mod error message disappears.

    Later, If I install this new package in my standard installation I won't get any error message.

    I have done this to solve this damaged mod error to various mods (Clio skins, RFT trackless, your mod) with success even if I don't know why (may be someone else has an explanation).

    Cheers.
     
  19. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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  20. Frenky

    Frenky Registered

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    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 1, 2014

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