Ermin being Ermin...
- Thread starter Nieubermesch
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AlexHeuskat
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it's true, Raceroom new FFB is far more better than AMS2....
Sorry, I can't resist.
Nieubermesch
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I'm trying it right now man... It's feeling like before on the DTM 2020. I am test driving. I don't know, I am not feeling it. Also heard that you could feel the tire flexing on this, but it's apparent on this car and my settings that that isn't really present... I don't know. We can discuss about RR and AMS2, but compared to the one in RF2 is really not good for me. I felt better cars in AMS2. AMS2 has good cars man. Have hope that Reiza can make it better and better. They are putting in the work and I'm happy they are making the best of it. Just don't trash it like you do and I am fine ahah.
AlexHeuskat
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maybe I can retry AMS2, to confirm my thoughts, do you use custom FFB ?
The FWD, FR2, FR90, WTCR, all are really good with the new FFB.
EDIT :
- For you, Nieubermesch, I've re-tried AMS2, BMW GTE, brands hatch, No TC, I can full press the gas in each corner, in, exit, no spin, nothing... a rail....like The crew 2 : arcade.
- I've immediately launched rF2, Brands Hatch 0.87, BMW GTE, second corner, 2nd gear, like AMS 2 I full press the gas, immediately I've spinned and crashed : awesome sim with throttle control.
Sorry, AMS2 is dead for me. I'm too lazy to record video for AMS2.....a waste. I won't talk about AMS2, it's a fail, I know why...
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Nieubermesch
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Yeah, try GTE cars and maybe some others. One I also recommend is the Sigma P1... Very good car for me, loose and tight. If you don't get with it any car with AMS2 it's ok, it's not quite quite Rfactor 2 like I said, but it can't be totally arcade in some cars if the feeling is not so different, and RF2 GT cars have some sluggish tires like I said and AMS2 also has a bit of that... I am really waiting for S397 to adapt this new BMW tires to all cars, it's that different for me.
I am trying some other cars. Tried one Audi GT3 and it felt better now, but that DTM, not feeling it. It's for me apparent that this tire model in RR is quite limited and doesn't quite simulate tire flex like the most advanced titles, even AMS2, that has the Seta tire model (even if it's bad or not, it is sort of a physical tire for all I know).
Nieubermesch
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RR is quite unforgiving with a lose rear! Not used to that!
AlexHeuskat
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see my edit above
Nieubermesch
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It's ok. You can watch my video with the Porsche RSR and it gets lose on throtle... Maybe BMW is one of those that are stupid like that, although AMS can have propper wheel spin. I'm not really keeping AMS2 installed either, but they are making progress and some cars feel much better than before. As I said, maybe that rear is a bit too planted in a lot of cars. I would encourage to try Sigma at least, but it's as you wish. I don't love AMS2 enough to really care that much to be honest.
Nieubermesch
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But yeah, we can label AMS2 arcade fine, if that problem is present, but maybe a better designation is that it is arcade on a variety of cars on that aspect (at least the most apparent issue for me and some suspension oddities). Lets see if they can refine it better though.
Made this long ago (the throtle control has bugged me too before) and this is one of the cars that have no problem spinning out on power, so I don't know if the problem with their models might also be about aero modelling just giving to much grip on rear... Also forgot you should tune the differentials. They are quite open on default setups... you need to close them more to have proper wheel spin, of course.
Made this long ago (the throtle control has bugged me too before) and this is one of the cars that have no problem spinning out on power, so I don't know if the problem with their models might also be about aero modelling just giving to much grip on rear... Also forgot you should tune the differentials. They are quite open on default setups... you need to close them more to have proper wheel spin, of course.
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Travis
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Despite what people may think, R3E is an excellent sim; Alex H (https://uk.linkedin.com/in/alex-hodgkinson-076a98119 ) has done an excellent job with the physics, tyre model and FFB. Alex has real world seat time in a variety of race and road cars and access to many professional teams and drivers.
If you're asking how I know this..I was a beta tester for S3 for 7 years.
Ermin is a YouTuber and like the majority of talking heads on that platform, has no idea what he's taking about regarding the validity of the FFB, physics or tyres. Yes, he's been driven around (and likely driven) the Nurburgring; I've completed several V8 Supercar experiences so that must mean I'm as qualified as Scott Mclachlan
Subjective statements about how a car you've never driven ''feels'' does not make one an expert.
Nieubermesch
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Despite what people may think, R3E is an excellent sim; Alex H (https://uk.linkedin.com/in/alex-hodgkinson-076a98119 ) has done an excellent job with the physics, tyre model and FFB. Alex has real world seat time in a variety of race and road cars and access to many professional teams and drivers.
If you're asking how I know this..I was a beta tester for S3 for 7 years.
Ermin is a YouTuber and like the majority of talking heads on that platform, has no idea what he's taking about regarding the validity of the FFB, physics or tyres. Yes, he's been driven around (and likely driven) the Nurburgring; I've completed several V8 Supercar experiences so that must mean I'm as qualified as Scott Mclachlan
Subjective statements about how a car you've never driven ''feels'' does not make one an expert.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate RR, but FFB letted me down and Ermin again jumping on another wagon... I mean, RR doesn't even have a really advanced tire model in my opinion. It feels like AMS wich is a good sim, but it's limited because of how the tires are being simulated compared to other tires in the simulation market with a lot more complexity (not a good thing on itself I know).
mantasisg
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I have had little time in Raceroom, but my initial impression was that they have simplified their tire model a lot with which they begun (it was sourced from rFactor just like AMS, right ?), and perhaps the rest of the physics as well, it just didn't feel detailed to me. I am also very much not a fan of many FFB settings, and RR is famous for it's DIY FFB, I think it is is incredibly wrong for a simulator, it is like giving people an opportunity to fool themselves as much as they want, instead of just offering perfectly sensible default FFB base and just relying on FFB feel that is result of actual cars physics. I can't imagine people discussing cars in RR, let alone people using different hardware and having different perception, they are also able to skew it further with all over the place FFB settings that can be adjusted to each ones imagination.
Raceroom is just strange to me. But I always thought they choose a lot of interesting tracks and make them well for their sim.
Raceroom is just strange to me. But I always thought they choose a lot of interesting tracks and make them well for their sim.
Nieubermesch
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FFB was actually just updated around the time of my post to be based on the physics of the cars, but at the time I tried it, it felt like the old FFB dialed in by the Dev team and now one can't even personalize... The problem is that it didn't feel good at all to me when compared to FFB like RF2 and even BeamNG. Tried that yesterday and the FFB on that is feeling like the most advanced and detailed of all simulations IMO.
instinkt
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with that new ffb r3e is better than rf2 as a package
I still love attention to track details and like ffb better in rf2 but the fact is that r3e ffb now isn't that far off, there is much less annoying bugs/exploits than in rf2 and overall user experience is like billion times better - for the foremost u can just race with people many times everyday
and my overall feel unfortunately is that r3e devs understands better what is going and what people need than rf2 team
I still love attention to track details and like ffb better in rf2 but the fact is that r3e ffb now isn't that far off, there is much less annoying bugs/exploits than in rf2 and overall user experience is like billion times better - for the foremost u can just race with people many times everyday
and my overall feel unfortunately is that r3e devs understands better what is going and what people need than rf2 team
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mantasisg
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It would be so much simple if people just wanted realism and had somewhat at least similar perceptions of what realistic is. But now it is a blend of widely different perceptions of reality mixed with hurt egos if they can't be good with a car and also mixed with people who does not feel simulations at all if they are too easy.
@Nieubermesch Oh yes, forgot about that. That is good news, now you may not be able to personalize it, but also will not be able to ruin it. People often ruin FFB that is perfectly good, because they don't let themselves to get used to it, or because they have some absolutely wrong expectations. Fortunately FFB sliders only mess with perception of how car feels, but sometimes it can migrate into infectious car physics disease called "havnocluitus".
No one talks about it, but there is no FFB without what the car is doing as seen on the screen, or in other word - physics. While FFB feel hugely dominantly comes from physics in good simulation, so does reasons why car does things that it does, obviously. People too often talk about FFB as if it was just FFB without physics.
I don't follow development of Raceroom, but I guess they might have improved physics as well. I am just guessing now. It makes sense if they did get rid of DIY FFB to secure consistent experience across the userbase, it makes all the sense in the world in terms of having a simulation, rather than just a game.
Overall it sounds like R3E has gone on the right track. My previous post may be totally wrong and uninformed then, as I didn't follow the subject properly. But as always, gotta try it yourself, I can't imagine R3E getting anywhere near what is possible in rF2 (with well made cars), but I perfectly believe it has better user experience. I switched to new UI of rF2 lately, it didn't make me more happy, I also attempted to join new BMW competition system something, and my result was competition system nothing.
@Nieubermesch Oh yes, forgot about that. That is good news, now you may not be able to personalize it, but also will not be able to ruin it. People often ruin FFB that is perfectly good, because they don't let themselves to get used to it, or because they have some absolutely wrong expectations. Fortunately FFB sliders only mess with perception of how car feels, but sometimes it can migrate into infectious car physics disease called "havnocluitus".
No one talks about it, but there is no FFB without what the car is doing as seen on the screen, or in other word - physics. While FFB feel hugely dominantly comes from physics in good simulation, so does reasons why car does things that it does, obviously. People too often talk about FFB as if it was just FFB without physics.
I don't follow development of Raceroom, but I guess they might have improved physics as well. I am just guessing now. It makes sense if they did get rid of DIY FFB to secure consistent experience across the userbase, it makes all the sense in the world in terms of having a simulation, rather than just a game.
Overall it sounds like R3E has gone on the right track. My previous post may be totally wrong and uninformed then, as I didn't follow the subject properly. But as always, gotta try it yourself, I can't imagine R3E getting anywhere near what is possible in rF2 (with well made cars), but I perfectly believe it has better user experience. I switched to new UI of rF2 lately, it didn't make me more happy, I also attempted to join new BMW competition system something, and my result was competition system nothing.
Nieubermesch
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Yeah, maybe FFB now is more realistic and in accord to what the cars steering geometry and weight transfer is doing, but it still feels very sterile to me and I've heard other people say it's not very different from a nailed in older FFB that I am sure was still based on physics one way or another, even if not a direct connection.
R3E just doesn't feel very advanced on the tire model. I'm past tire models that don't even send the lateral flexing at the very least through the FFB and I'm pretty sure it's just because it's a limited tire simulation akin to the one in RF1 and other derivatives.