[WIP] EnduranceRacingX PX by URD Pre-order with beta access available!

I want to change my 'want.' Still release the TS-030 with the same physics as the Porsche. But the Nissan LM prototype. That was a failure in every way. It was designed as a hybrid but the hybrid parts only arrived just about the time the project was cancelled. I'd like to see some modder attempt to integrate the smaller brakes, front wheel drive, forward downforce and other pieces that were supposed to be in the real car. The hybrid was partially a brake energy recovery system, So the recovery system acted as a braking device as it stored energy. Thus smaller lighter brakes were possible. And the extra horsepower from the hybrid system would have added to it's acceleration.
Maybe we could get in contact with the designer, Ben Bowlby and get a shopping list of unfinished features and try and bring them to the sim car.
 
I gave it a try to BoP the Venom to latest S397 GT3 by
  • adding S397 provided tyres (from the Tyre Database) with some minor modifications to the TGM and the default setup,
  • minor changes to the weight,
  • enabling the TC and ABS built-in system (more or less a simple copy/paste from Developers Guide),
  • and minor changes to the gears (based on what I found in the net on the VLN Viper GT3, not much off the original gearing).
At least that's what I remember :D

Now that I did only a couple of laps around Silverstone GT (unfortunately only with a Gamepad for now) I must say the car feels well and my personal lap times seem quite close to those of the S397 GT3. However, I'm very uncertain if this is any good and going in the right direction. Is anyone willing to give input on this?
 
The Pirelli World Challenge use to have a lot of info. As SRO and the transition to full GT3 spec happened, it started to get locked down. Now everything on the competitor side, is locked behind a sign in. Any way, here is an Apendix A and a Pirelli tire sheet that I saved from 2016. I attached an example of the VTS that use to be on the WC site. Those were not provided for the GT3 cars. If some body has access to FIA documents, document GT3-036 should provide that level of detail.

IMSA would also be a site to look into, but in the past, I've never found anything specifically for the cars. If it did, it was never to that level of detail.

I think the only real difference between the GTE/GTLM and GT3 is the rear wing mounts. Are you possibly going to add that as well? Anyways, really looking forward to seeing your updates!
 

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FuNK! said:
I gave it a try to BoP the Venom to latest S397 GT3 by
  • adding S397 provided tyres (from the Tyre Database) with some minor modifications to the TGM and the default setup,
  • minor changes to the weight,
  • enabling the TC and ABS built-in system (more or less a simple copy/paste from Developers Guide),
  • and minor changes to the gears (based on what I found in the net on the VLN Viper GT3, not much off the original gearing).
At least that's what I remember :D

Now that I did only a couple of laps around Silverstone GT (unfortunately only with a Gamepad for now) I must say the car feels well and my personal lap times seem quite close to those of the S397 GT3. However, I'm very uncertain if this is any good and going in the right direction. Is anyone willing to give input on this?
Click to expand...
Really nice. Had (or have) also plans to do this for some SimTek cars (Ferrari and Lambo).
But the thing is. I'm not sure with releasing such cars.
I mean they are still URD/SimTek cars. And if they don't know about this, or are not happy with the results, what then ?
All the work for nothing ? Also when I would work on such cars. I would also like to give them a graphical update.
But I have no clue and tools how to do this :)
 
Stevy said:
Really nice. Had (or have) also plans to do this for some SimTek cars (Ferrari and Lambo).
But the thing is. I'm not sure with releasing such cars.
I mean they are still URD/SimTek cars. And if they don't know about this, or are not happy with the results, what then ?
All the work for nothing ? Also when I would work on such cars. I would also like to give them a graphical update.
But I have no clue and tools how to do this :)
Click to expand...

URD is a bit different as it was a payware mod. For EGT, the Ferrari, Corvette, and Porsche was allowed to be used by Enduracers. The BMW, Viper and Aston was not used by them, which is very unfortunate. The Enduracers Aston, is actually really good, but that does need the final 2016-2019 model update. I have been wanting to get the BMW and Viper updated to the current Enduracers spec. One of the things on my list of things I want to do.

For Simtek, he got out of modding a while ago now. I'm pretty sure he made a statement before he left that if people wanted to use his cars as a base, that can be done. So those are fair game for editing and releasing, but you also need to take into consideration of the sources of the models, as most were conversions. A BOP for the Ferrari and Lamborghini would be welcome.
 
Chris Lesperance said:
The Pirelli World Challenge use to have a lot of info. As SRO and the transition to full GT3 spec happened, it started to get locked down. Now everything on the competitor side, is locked behind a sign in. Any way, here is an Apendix A and a Pirelli tire sheet that I saved from 2016. I attached an example of the VTS that use to be on the WC site. Those were not provided for the GT3 cars. If some body has access to FIA documents, document GT3-036 should provide that level of detail.

IMSA would also be a site to look into, but in the past, I've never found anything specifically for the cars. If it did, it was never to that level of detail.

I think the only real difference between the GTE/GTLM and GT3 is the rear wing mounts. Are you possibly going to add that as well? Anyways, really looking forward to seeing your updates!
Click to expand...
I actually found the VTS for the Viper (2014 revision draft though) in my research and I used that as well to review the physics - at least as far as I was able to :confused:

But I honestly don't believe it makes sense to only focus on the documents. That's all theory and may still result in a car that is not up to level (or beyond) the current GT3 from S397. So let me rephrase my question or request a little: What would be needed to bring the Venom on a realistic pace compared to the S397 GT3? Are there any known relations or benchmarks, like:
  • "Viper should be slower than R8 but faster than 911 in top speed."
  • "Viper should have less corner speed than R8 but more than 650s."
  • "Viper best lap time on Silverstone should be ~ 2:06.4XX min."
  • "Viper best lap time on VLN Nordschleife should be 8:07.9XX min."
  • "Viper pit time should be between 160 sec and 320 sec."
  • "Viper should be able to go on a 6 lap stint on VLN Nordschleife with one set of tyres and a full tank."
  • ...
This way one could try to alter all the required parameters (grip, rpm, torque, weight, engine lifetime, tyre lifetime, etc.) to achieve a Venom that can be driven along the S397 GT3 in a realistic way.

Stevy said:
Really nice. Had (or have) also plans to do this for some SimTek cars (Ferrari and Lambo).
But the thing is. I'm not sure with releasing such cars.
I mean they are still URD/SimTek cars. And if they don't know about this, or are not happy with the results, what then ?
All the work for nothing ? Also when I would work on such cars. I would also like to give them a graphical update.
But I have no clue and tools how to do this :)
Click to expand...
SimTek is a completely different topic - don't let me start on that ;)

URD had difficulties and all folks only complain instead of at least one offering help. So I'm sure that Ales will be open for discussion on how we could share any update we create if he sees support from the community. On the other hand, if I would publish an update that only includes physics, what should speak against that? I mean, only those who bought the car from URD will be able to use it anyway.
Of course it is a different story regarding the 3d models. That would require Ales permission to release an update - and him actually sharing the update with URD customers and not me or anyone else. However, I've updated the visuals on the Venom and if there is a way to share, I certainly will ;)
 
Maybe try getting in touch with the teams that ran the car in the US, you may bump into a friendly person that would love to see the car released with proper physics
Tho I'm not sure how it goes with paid mods
Black Swan Racing
Lone Star Racing
McCann Racing
Riley Motorsports
 
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FuNK! said:
I gave it a try to BoP the Venom to latest S397 GT3 by
  • adding S397 provided tyres (from the Tyre Database) with some minor modifications to the TGM and the default setup,
  • minor changes to the weight,
  • enabling the TC and ABS built-in system (more or less a simple copy/paste from Developers Guide),
  • and minor changes to the gears (based on what I found in the net on the VLN Viper GT3, not much off the original gearing).
At least that's what I remember :D

Now that I did only a couple of laps around Silverstone GT (unfortunately only with a Gamepad for now) I must say the car feels well and my personal lap times seem quite close to those of the S397 GT3. However, I'm very uncertain if this is any good and going in the right direction. Is anyone willing to give input on this?
Click to expand...
The URD Venom(Dodge Viper) was the GTE Champion it's last season. So it's performance 'should' be equivalent to GTE cars. The problem is S397 killed the GTE cars over-all pace and they often mix in with the S397 GT3 cars which 'should' be several seconds slower.
 
davehenrie said:
The URD Venom(Dodge Viper) was the GTE Champion it's last season. So it's performance 'should' be equivalent to GTE cars. The problem is S397 killed the GTE cars over-all pace and they often mix in with the S397 GT3 cars which 'should' be several seconds slower.
Click to expand...
Not exactly. The Viper program was cancelled before the current GTE regulation was in effect, previously the pace between GTE and GT3 was almost non existent, new rules (2016+) focused on that because IMSA and ELMS were running both together.
I think it's the GT3 cars that are too fast in rF2, tho right now everything is a mess so who knows

I wouldnt try to BoP it with S397 GT3 in any case, you'll probably have to slow it down later so try to get real data and see the result
 
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Will Mazeo said:
Not exactly. The Viper program was cancelled before the current GTE regulation was in effect, previously the pace between GTE and GT3 was almost non existent, new rules (2016+) focused on that because IMSA and ELMS were running both together.
I think it's the GT3 cars that are too fast in rF2, tho right now everything is a mess so who knows

I wouldnt try to BoP them with S397 GT3 in any case, you'll probably have to slow it down later so try to get real data and see the result
Click to expand...
what? I had 3 more paragraphs explaining the Tudor vs GTe vs GT3 vs VLN. They all got wiped.
So I'll sumarize. Viper started as a GT1 car at Le Mans. The category changed to GT2 around the 2000's & Viper had plenty of sucess in Europe and the States. Dodge left racing for some years, but Bill Riley built a new version of the car and it raced at what would have been GTE if the formula was present in the USA. )((I suspect the Viper was actually a Corvette in theory, Riley attempted to outbid Pratt & Whitney for the Corvette contract the previous year, so magically, the Riley Dodge Viper suddenly appeared the next season. That car won the Tudor Championship with some backing from Chrysler/Dodge.)) Then, after winning, Dodge again quit racing in sportscars. The various GTE level cars were converted to GT3 specs and at least three of them raced in the US for a few more years. The Zakspeed Viper also started life as a full blown GT2 car, but was nerfed to GT3 and then penalized more as Zakspeed sought to do end runs around the VLN rulemakers.
 
I follow these series so I know the history. Still this has nothing to do with the topic of pace.
Pre 2016 regs = GTE/GT3 too close
Pos 2016 regs = ACO makes GTE faster due to some series putting both classes together (Viper GTE program canceled in 2014)

I say the S397 GT3 was too fast due to competition some time ago at Silverstone with aliens going really fast there, ofc IRL this could happen with SGT tires tho. But who knows what they'll do to fix this, if they dont touch the GTE class anymore this means GT3 will be slowed down
 
I don't think URD checks here very often, but I don't have Twitter (where they seem most active). So I'll give this a shot.

This is a very old preview. I was wondering if the raw files for these are still around? If they are I was wondering if they could be uploaded where someone might be able to get it in game? There is a Morgan that never made an rF2 conversion that is dated. This model looks great and would fill in a few empty spaces.

https://www.virtualr.net/endurance-racing-x-new-prototype-previews-3
 
The model on the right appears to be the Acura ARX 01....d? About the time Graff raced it as a P1 I think. (the shark fin wasn't there in P2 days was it?) URD also, at some point, displayed an early model of the Toyota 030...I'd be happy to see that just mounted on Porsche 919 physics.
ok :) actually looked them up. 2012 ALMS Acura ARX03-C and the Morgan(Oak/Pescarolo) LMP2 cars.
 
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Chris Lesperance said:
I don't think URD checks here very often, but I don't have Twitter (where they seem most active). So I'll give this a shot.

This is a very old preview. I was wondering if the raw files for these are still around? If they are I was wondering if they could be uploaded where someone might be able to get it in game? There is a Morgan that never made an rF2 conversion that is dated. This model looks great and would fill in a few empty spaces.

https://www.virtualr.net/endurance-racing-x-new-prototype-previews-3
Click to expand...
There was also a bykolles model. Maybe enduracers would like more p2 models?
 
I don't recall the ByKolles. There was the 2016 Audi and Toyota also in development that never got released.

I can maybe get the models in game. They might not be great, but they might be good for grid fillers. I have a converted version of the HPD for personal use. It was the model that has been converted to every other game. But I have been looking for a better version of the Morgan for a while, and nothing has popped up. That model should fill the grid of my LM16 grid.

It should be fairly easy to get get it working with the Enduracers mod. Their P2 physics are pretty standard. That is the one thing I cannot do. We'll see I guess.
 
I wanted to the do a P2 expansion pack... But the feel of the URD P2's was underwhelming... The Feedback - not the driving, but the FFB was non-existant, so it never materialized... HPD, tonnes of Lolas, Courage etc...
 
Bjørn said:
I wanted to the do a P2 expansion pack... But the feel of the URD P2's was underwhelming... The Feedback - not the driving, but the FFB was non-existant, so it never materialized... HPD, tonnes of Lolas, Courage etc...
Click to expand...

That's why I was planning on using the Enduracers physics. Even though they are pretty much spec across their P2 class, it's fun and they are all pretty balanced with each other. If anything, it provides a great baseline.
 
Chris Lesperance said:
That's why I was planning on using the Enduracers physics. Even though they are pretty much spec across their P2 class, it's fun and they are all pretty balanced with each other. If anything, it provides a great baseline.
Click to expand...

I assume you asked enduracers for permission to use their physics?;)

I don‘t think they would like to see their physics ripped or used by someone else
 
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