Embarrassing I'm faster with GT3 than GTE

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by davehenrie, Aug 18, 2019.

  1. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2016
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    581
    We agree to disagree. The GT3's in ACC for me feel 1000x better in a TS-PC, to the point I can't drive them in rF2 anymore without getting bored.
    The Oreca LMP2 on the other hand, feels great, especially after the last update.
    Sorry about the off-topic, but had to be said :confused:
     
    mr.Sw1tchblade, tlsmikey and memoNo1 like this.
  2. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    352
    In this video the german Grip Motormagazin tested 3 Porsche, from street to rsr.
    Kévin Estre predicted they will be (only!!) 1sec faster with the rsr, on a 1.25 track. It was 1.5 but they lacked enough practise of course. However they drove the rsr at the end.

    Not so much difference actually,
     
  3. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    4,120
    Likes Received:
    2,315
    After my whiny post about the GTE tires last night, I just had a few more laps at LM. Used the P3 instead of P2 and while my lap times were very similar, the drama was much lessened. No tiny wiggle resulting major havoc a turn later... So at least I can turn laps there.
    Tires ran near 70° but never got up to those bright color ranges.
     
  4. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    4,120
    Likes Received:
    2,315
    keep playing with that smoothing setting, My TS-PC is set to zero. Folks seem to think you only 'really' get the feel of the true ffb with a dd wheel. I doubt I'll ever get that much hardware, but I'm satisfied with the TS.
     
  5. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2016
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    581
    I use smoothing at 1. I've used the TS-PC in rF2 for over a year and I have no complaints whatsoever on the FFB, I just like the GT3's in ACC better, that's all.

    I agree, the TS-PC is a great wheel so I can't justify getting a DD wheel.
     
  6. Max.B18

    Max.B18 Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    70
    For me is the gte Physik crap after the last two updates. First anythink is broken on the physik side and not fixed. And other think how stupid is it you make two Original classes slower than reallife for one fiktionale car(Mclaren). (After this you can t do gte and gt3 in 1 race). Studio 397 come on fix this.....
     
    memoNo1 likes this.
  7. Stevy

    Stevy Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    566
    I get that BOP for the Oreca. When you want to implement a ((for now) fictional) Hypercar class.
    And a LMP2 on LMP1 speed.
    But I don't get the GTE BOP. And not even are there slower now, they changed the characteristics of the cars.
    And that's where it gets strange for me.
    Why don't we have a GT3 BOP now ? Why not release everything together in one update ?

    A few already said it. And I will repeat it.
    In the last few years/months everything seems quit rushed at S397.
    We get updates which broke more than they fix (server/freezes).
    A lot of stuff gets delayed over and over again.

    And the worst part ? The worst part is that the worst parts are PAID content.
    The Tatuus cars where all fine. The GT3 and GTEs are not.
    Any words from the developer ? No
    I get back to the part where people said the Aston GTE dashboard says GT3.
    Why did the developer go quit with this one ? A simple "we know" or "That's how it is in real life" and everything would be ok.
    The case would be closed and everyone would be happy. The same with other stuff.
    But here are we now. Problems over problems. The developer is quit or talks over problems on RD or on some Discords.
    But hey, at least we get now content.
     
  8. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    243
    Someone told after recent GTE update, cars are more oversteery i.e in "Schumacher S" at Le Mans. I tried BMW and Porsche RSR and in deed, when pushed the rear would oversteer and cause slide there. Previously didn't notice that, only C7 was that oversteery for me. Still the Porsche is definitely one of my favourite cars to drive. Tried it on different tracks and it was OK there. I like it's FFB and the fact it's not on rails like some GT3s.
    Regarding fast tire heat and slow cooling - I often experience that in AC to bigger extend. After slide rear temps would raise so much that you have no traction on rear for 30+ seconds. Also read similar complaint in iRacing, but haven't noticed it yet. It doesn't seem to be a problem in AMS or RaceRoom.
     
  9. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    243
    But you know that better feel doesn't mean more realistic. You probably prefer when GT3s are more slidey and challenging , but in ACC it's too much of that.
    Real drivers say cars like GT3 have a lot of grip. They are build to be easy to handle. But of course they can be challenging when racing at the limit.

    I also used to be bored with GT3, especially Corvette on softs. But cars in Challengers pack seem more challenging:) For instance Audi on longer stints. Even after 20 minutes of pushing the car is much harder to drive on the limit. I also often choose mediums on green/light rubbered track for pratcice. Also you can always disable ABS and TC.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  10. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,223
    Likes Received:
    1,583
    That's because the Audi has an issue and its tires get wear at a faster pace than the others...
     
  11. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2016
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    581
    It's not about them being more slidey and challenging, I just have a better feel of what the car is doing in ACC and to my eyes it feels just a little bit more realistic. I also feel TC kicks-in in a more realistic way.
    Bumper to bumper racing with AI is more fun, the tracks (even though much fewer in number) are amazingly done, night and rain is way better......immersion factor is just higher for me in ACC
     
    mr.Sw1tchblade likes this.
  12. Max.B18

    Max.B18 Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    70
    Gt3 are ok. But the problem is the broken gte physik and overall speed
     
  13. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    243
    OK. I don't have ACCO(not biggest fan of GT3s), but from what I read there were rather mixed opinions about FFB, while in rF2 it's usually one of strongest points.
    Nicki Thiim wasn't impressed by it's physics. But he's not impressed by any sim, including iRacing, despite he ranks it as most realistic(I believe). Unfortunately he didn't try rF2 GT3s yet. ACC is still evolving so I'd wait for different pro drivers' opinions. Of course RL drivers can have vastly different opinions about sims' physics, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.
    Anyway, if it feels good and realistic to you then it's most important.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
    fsuarez79 likes this.
  14. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2016
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    581
    Nikki Thiim tested ACC right after release and there's been significant improvements to the tires and how they interact with kerbs since then, which was the biggest complaint from Nikki. Having said that I don't even take Nikki Thiim's opinion seriously when it comes to simracing. He didn't even want to test the rF2 Aston GT3 when it came out because the cockpit didn't look right. He's biased towards iRacing only because of the multiplayer structure so I don't put too much weight on his opinions.
    I appreciate you respect my point of view. I still think the Oreca in rF2 is top notch tho, and once S397 decides to address some of the AI bugs it should also be fun to race with ;)
     
  15. Stevy

    Stevy Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    566
    I think the best would be if S397 would reset the latest GTE BOP or even go back to the initial release state.
    I had great GTE/GT3 races before but didn't test or drove them since the latest BOP update.
    And then BOP them like, you know, in real life. So just use weight and power to make them even.
    And I mean it like ± few kg or power * 0,0x% and not killing them entirely
     
    mr.Sw1tchblade likes this.
  16. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2016
    Messages:
    912
    Likes Received:
    1,929
    Considering that the Oreca was something like 7 seconds or more faster compared to the real lap times at Le Mand, the BOP for that car is very much needed. There also have been issues with the df levels of low vs high df packages of the car that aren't fully fixed. So in that regard it makes sense to balance the LMP2 vs the GTE and after that the GTE vs the GT3 class. IRC the GT3 cars were alot faster than they should be aswell. But this should be done using proper data and research in first place and not just by gut feel.
     
  17. Stevy

    Stevy Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    566
    Yeah...I fully understand the Oreca BOP. Driving LMP1 times with a LMP2 is far from "realism".
    And now with the Senna GTR which should be the new Hypercar class which should be slower than LMP1...
    So you end up with LMP2 lapping the top class without the new BOP, so I fully understand and support this.

    But what I don't support is slowing the GTE down to GT3 speeds.
    And the real problem (for me) is not that they did slow them down but that something changed the characteristics of the cars.
    Just adding (a little) weight or take away a little bit power should not change the car characteristic.
     
  18. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    243
    I think when aliens drive a car we should expect faster times than in real life. They can practice for weeks with just one car/track combo in controlled conditions. There's no fear of injury or wrecking the car so they can try things they wouldn't in real life. Also in a sim they can attack curbs in a way that would risk damaging suspension. Admittedly fastest aliens often use "tricks" to exploit handling issues in a sim gaining 0.2s here and there. Still I 7 seconds on Le Mans definitely is too much, but 2-3 seconds faster it's fully reasonable.

    Can you elaborate? I know it had wrong lift/drag ratio. This wasn't fully fixed? Also I think the new "Le Mans" package is realistic, so perhaps now other packages should be adjusted?
     
  19. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

    Joined:
    May 22, 2014
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    200
    Maybe GT3s will get BOPed later. I don't have problem with changing the characteristics of the cars if the new characteristics are closer to reality. It's weird though that they didn't mention physics changes in the change log and at least bmw seems to have changed quite a bit. I have been a bit skeptical towards the realism of these gt cars (especially gt3s) because of how much grip there is on high slip angles. So imo bmw might be more realistic now.
     
    TJones likes this.
  20. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    243
    Yeah I think any BoP change, should only limit to adding mass etc. not messing with fundamental physics.
    I've read few people say GTE cars now have more oversteer. Yesterday I (re)tried C7 on Suzuka and when pushed to the limit I spun a lot due to corner entry / mid corner oversteer. C7 had this tendency, but now it's more significant. After update I tried BMW and it also also seemed more oversttery.

    I also had this concern - some seem too easy/ not challenging to race on softs (even for GT3, which are supposed to be safe) . Corvette on softs on moderate to high rubbered track, felt like "on rails" - it was very grippy and even boring to drive for me. Of course on green track it'd be different.

    Also usually with S397 GT3s if you start sliding it's quite easy to catch it. I believe this is good description why it's concerning:

    "In reality racing tires have a narrow slip angle to lateral load ratio range, making it difficult to keep the car in that range between still having grip and already sliding. (Some people call it the tire flex feeling.) As a result of it, in sims road cars should be easier to get in this zone of controllable oversteering, while race cars with racing tires tend to surprise you with sudden oversteer that is much harder to catch."

    But, maybe that's more or less realistic for GT3 cars. There are few possible arguments. S397 spend a lot of work on these tires, got detailed data which lead to updating tire model, worked with teams which lead to further refinements.
    Also I've heard in recent years there's tendency for racing tires to allow more slip angles again. So maybe that was the case when they got data from manufacturer. Probably best person to explain this concern would be @Michael Borda. Also it would be nice if any pro driver like Nicki Thiim would try GT3 or GTE car in rF2 and give feedback. They say these cars are quite realistic in iRacing.

    Anyway, the cars in the Challangers pack seem a bit more um... challanging:) than the ones from the original pack.
    For example is Porsche does not feel "on rails" like Corvette did. Generally on mediums they feel as I'd expect. Also aggresive driving Audi on softs will degrade very quickly and then it becomes quite challenging. But I've heard it even may be a bug.
     
    Korva7 likes this.

Share This Page