1. [NAR]Steve

    [NAR]Steve Well-Known Member

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    Just curious if DX11 will result in higher FPS? My system is a little long in the tooth. Phenom II X4 970, 8 GB DDR2 800, HD6950, with 6970 bios. I have been thinking about getting a newer Video card, but will wait n see how DX11 impacts performance.
     
  2. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Well-Known Member

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    When iracing went dx11 there was not much difference Except the usual lower fps dips (lots of cars etc) were not so low,
    The fps was a tad more consistent

    Then through updates shaders have improved so it's better looking but it's all very subtle

    It's a great step but expect to visually notice much difference

    Updates later I'm sure will bring sone nice surprises & judging by the update screenshots of new rfactor2 shaders it looks nice
     
  3. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Member

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    Guys,

    Kinda similar question to Steve....
    Do you think DX11 ( in technical sense ) will change the way cockpit view lower FPS and GPU not maximized ......to be improved ?
    I mean with car view from the rear and all other views, except cockpit view, I can get much higher FPS and GPU load near 99% with 2 x GT980-SLI driving surround 7680 x1440 144hz monitor, but cockpit view is the slowest FPS of all at 70 average and GPU load only 70% at best. This is medium setting but shadow off and reflections off.

    Thanks
     
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  4. Drathuu

    Drathuu Well-Known Member

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    Added post processing will take a frame hit, but should be offset by other gains with Dx11. I suspect we will end up around the same frame rate.
     
  5. muz_j

    muz_j Active Member

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    To provide context and clarification on this - as I've had this discussion a few times and professionally I do a lot of work on Microsoft products - an understanding of the technical differences with DirectX is important - in my opinion.
    Some high level differences are shown on this page - DX9 vs DX10 is what I'm getting at, as it doesn't cover DX11.
    http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/directx-versions/2/

    ...and more relevant and specific to this conversation is the DX features comparison chart on MSDN:
    https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ff476876(v=vs.85).aspx

    ...so bottom line - DX11 does definitely offer the capability for _considerably_ improved graphics. Just looking at one feature on that table - comparing texture size limits should give you an idea. Then factor in all the other differences.

    In terms of understanding how it will play out on your own GPU - that comes down to your video card's efficiency when processing and handling DX11 vs 9. That's kind of stating that obvious, but by examining benchmarks for other comparable software for your own GPU - either high end racing simulators or things like large scale tactical FPS, flight simulators etc - you should get a good appreciation.

    ...at the end of the day though, the proof is in the pudding. i.e. seeing what happens in the real world on your own computer when running rF2 in DX11 mode. Personally I'm really looking forward to it.
    If you have show stopping issues - you can run it in DX9 mode.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017 at 4:50 AM
  6. Nibiru

    Nibiru Well-Known Member

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    Don't get to excited about DX11!! it's not some magic switch that's going to make the game look instantly better. In some cases it will look worse.
    There will be a lot of modders content that wont look good until the modders update there work to DX11 standard.

    That will take time for some, and some may have already moved on.

    It's all about the new content when DX11 in introduced
     
  7. Rastas

    Rastas Active Member

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    All my current mods already way better in DX11,cars and tracks,only need to make some change in textures and materiais,nothing hard ;)
     
  8. Nibiru

    Nibiru Well-Known Member

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    Well done. The modders that have followed the albedo correctly in DX9 shouldn't have as many texture and material changes to those that didn't and the bloom and muddiness will show for those that didn't. It will look beautiful but not all content we have now will suite it.
     
  9. Rastas

    Rastas Active Member

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    Is a matter of time to the modders starting making great stufs,is all new things for us,weel,im not a pro moder actualy,i more a entusiast hehe :)
     
  10. Nibiru

    Nibiru Well-Known Member

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    I agree with what you say. BUT some of the content we use the modder has many tracks or cars but little time due to hobbie or modder has moved on or modder has no more spare time and has stopped. Not all old content will look good we now wait for updates or new stuff
     
  11. Drathuu

    Drathuu Well-Known Member

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    Definately everything looks way better already - as for track modding -

    Ive just updated highlands, albeit having an issue with 2 textures blooming badly, these are well within albedo tolerances.. Played with the material spec settings, but cant remove it no matter what i do, going to post in dx11 modders section as 2 walls out of everything glow badly.. (however rest of track is fine. I cant see any difference to any other texture or material setting either, so going to be a fun one to debug ;)
     
  12. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Member

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    Thank you MUZ,
    I just bought Assetto Corsa a few days ago and it is using DX11. I am dummy on IT matters but I sure hope
    RF2 can ( among other improvements ) give easy pop out menu like AC on frame rate lock because AC can really pump my GTX980-2way SLI to 99% GPU load ( resolution 7680 x 1440 ) and I find that good a thing where I can get my hardware to run near maximum. So I locked it to 100 FPS only and reduce some setting to medium and get 80% ish GPU load. GPU at 80-85% continuous load is what I will set as MAX. I don't know if this is due to DX11 or AC way of maximizing SLI software wise. Since AC is on DX11, I sure is hoping all these goodies are also due to DX11 :)

    If RF2 DX11 can be like AC , I then can later invest in GTX1080Ti-2way SLI and complete my visual hardware improvement where I am seeking if possible 140 FPS in all games at near max setting if not max, because my monitor is 144hz G-synch ready and it will be nice to max it out too.

    I like RF2 physics, I really do.
     
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  13. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Well-Known Member

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    apparently it's all about the grass
     
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  14. Eric Rowland

    Eric Rowland Well-Known Member

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  15. DaVeX

    DaVeX Well-Known Member

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    It's always about grass, lol.
     
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  16. muz_j

    muz_j Active Member

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    Holy hell it sounds like you've got a nice setup there.
    7680x1440 sounds 3 screens at 2560x1440 - nice :)
    SLI performance is a tricky beast - exactly like ATI's Crossfire. I've experimented with both years ago and I'm sure you already know this - but each game tends to be optimised for multi-card setups differently. Unfortunately you can't assume if game X runs nicely on SLI that game Y will do the same. But I would suspect SLI performance should improve on your cards, as they're built with DX12 in mind, rather than being older and focused on earlier versions of DirectX.
    100 FPS is nice. I'm going to assume you're using a proper SLI bridge connector for your cards - you'd be crazy not to for any form of SLI. That's about the only suggestion I can make as it sounds like you've got a really nice setup. If you can afford dual GTX1080's - why the hell not I guess. Sell off the 980's for some cash back and hopefully you can find a good deal on the newer cards.
    Personally I'm a "bang for your buck" kind of person and I'm happy with my single screen setup on a 1060 Ti.
    I'm waiting for 2 more generations of VR goggles to hit the market, then I'll invest in that and probably stop using a monitor for racing simulators completely.
    There's specific reasons I'm waiting 2 generations - as there's a couple of very interesting tech updates coming to the VR goggles in the near future. The current generation of them - HTC Vive and Oculus are seriously over priced and their implementation of a couple of things is pretty basic and not ideal at all. But it's impressive and I see a future where most of us aren't looking at screens for gaming a lot of the time.
    But a 3 screen setup like yours would be mighty impressive too :)
    If you're throwing that kind of money at your gaming machine - have you thought about a full motion rig?
    You could get something pretty good ones for much cheaper these days.
    Something like this: www.fasetech.com
     
  17. muz_j

    muz_j Active Member

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    Well funnily enough that is one really minor thing that I've thought could be improved in rF2, but it would obviously introduce a performance hit. The grass in games like Skyrim and The Witcher 3 is really nice and I've wanted to see a racing sim with a short version of bladed grass - but I think we'll be waiting a few more years for that - as the visual benefit is minimal and the performance hit would likely make it not worth it - until we've got more relative GPU grunt available anyway - but it would be cool. And it'd be nice to be able to see where you've driven off the track - from tyre tracks through grass :)
     
  18. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Member

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    Hi Muz,

    I like fun video editing and RF2 is my first try into PC gaming. Used to play Grand Turismo on PS1 .
    I love real cars too, but cost wise its too expensive in my country where I buy 1 here and get nearly 2 of the same in USA. Gone are the naughty boy street racing habits...me older now ... :p

    I am now into Sim for pure driving fun and not targeting online racing per se. I hope today's technology can deliver that fun.

    The GTX980 x 2 is from one of my video editing PC. So its old tech, early 2015 when I bought it.
    I got 2 PC for video editing, hence I am using the newer 8 core one for sim, as I like my older 6 core PC for Vegas Pro video editor which does not work well for GPU assist if newer cards above GTX580 Fermi architecture. GTX980 is Maxwell architecture.

    Motion rig is not my thing, none can deliver proper feel at decent price <US$20K. I mean how to deliver constant cornering, acceleration and de-acceleration G's when the motion platform itself can only do "1" push. For slalom perhaps current hobby simulator can do well. U get what I mean :)

    That Fase Tech does look unique but imagine its software feeding turning radius information of a track with more left turn. Let say an oval track. It if has to deliver accurate turning "feel", within 1 lap, all the electrical wires from the wall plug to this spinning sim and our PC will be in a mess.
    I think if they can sell enough, their next version will be a special static base plate to keep the current rig spinning on that static base plate and allow electrical supply feed to stay stationary using moving electrical contact, like brushes on motors. Motion is so complex on a simulator. At best I will get ButtKicker.

    This I think is the closest, a simulator can get to a real driving. I like the Lexus one due to its superb motion distance. But I need to be Bill Gates to afford one ... :D



    I settled for static Rseat N1 chassis. Still 30+ days away though. Sea shipping takes time.
    http://rseat.asia/index.php?route=product/category&path=68
    The rigidity is what I like. Since all sim chassis are either square tubes or round pipes or 80/20 frames,
    I choose fat round tubes. This Rseat looks nice too... he he he. I admire good engineering and looks.

    Yes, thanks to this sim thingy, I get to learn more of IT and I am kinda IT dummy.
    SLI scaling is not for all games, understood. My old GTX980 is normal SLI and my motherboard is tripple SLI ready, its X-99 Asus Deluxe 1st gen, with PCIE Gen 3.0 . The GTX1080Ti will need the high bandwith HB Bridge, not the GTX980 though. I rough estimate GTX1080Ti x 2 SLI will be a good choice and still allow running GPU no more than 85% load at high FPS and image quality. I don't like running anything at above 85% if possible. Looking at various test, it seems 1 of GTX1080Ti is equal to 2 x GTX980 in performance, so if the SLI scaling for GTX1080Ti works as well with the sim titles as what I am experiencing with GTX980 x 2, that GTX1080Ti will be awesome and don't need to work so hard.

    I also just bought Automobilista ( AMS ) yesterday and I just realized it is using RF2 physics too and is still DX9. From a short test, I think AMS for some reason can squeeze my GPU more than RF2.
    So I can compare now 2 of DX9 ( RF2 and AMS ) and Assetto Corsa DX11.

    I would avoid DX12 as long as I can, as I don't like Windows 10. Being IT stupid, I am in my comfort zone with oldie Windows 7 and not willing to give it up for W10 where it will auto update without me able to control it. I hate learning new OS too, this is my weak point being an IT dummy.

    I get headache with VR. Its resolution today is still very poor too. I do have a video goggle for drone use, and I cant wear it too long :(. It is a GLYPH, https://www.avegant.com/
    This one does not immerse you like a VR, but its images is much better due to its projector technology, albeit only 720p ...but its like watching a big screen, hence it is not as "VR" as Oculus. Next time I will try this GLYPH for sim racing and see how immersive it can be being a single screen equivalent.

    Now I am stuck with no chassis......yet......hick hick hick.:mad::(

    .
     
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  19. muz_j

    muz_j Active Member

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    I might have to reply to your reply in pieces.
    Automobilista is actually based on an enhanced version of the rFactor 1 engine - not rFactor 2. The physics polling rate has been increased, but I've tried it and I just can't get into it after rF2. It's like going backwards for me graphically and even though I focus on physics over graphics - I just can't stomach it. They're supposedly working on a new game and AMS was a stop gap until that is released - so I'll wait and see how that looks.

    VR goggles - correct. That's why I'm waiting 2 generations. Headaches are typical and so is dizziness. The technology I am waiting for will directly address those issues and make VR really, really good for everyone. I will find the article to explain it to you later - but it's a mixture of electro optical controls within the goggles and software. It will also remove the blurriness that a lot of users encounter. I agree with you - VR goggles right now are not suitable for most people - me included.

    Yeah those simulators are really cool - but not practical of viable for people like you and me. I know a company in Australia who make ones that are almost within reach, but still very expensive. They work with rF2 as well :)
    Have a look here: http://www.ckas.com.au/racing_simulators_41.html

    I would still suggest you use an SLI bridge. You might think you don't need it for 980's but by using one you will shift the traffic between the GPU's from the PCI-Express bus to the dedicated bridge. That will offer performance benefits - even if you can't really notice them. And the SLI bridge is very cheap. To me it's a no brainer.
    If you have other devices using the PCI-E bus - then you really should move to the SLI bridge sooner rather than later. Consider latency with responses as well. The bridges are a much shorter data path.

    2 articles on VR goggles to read - this should show you where things are going - and combine this with room positional sensors being moved from external sensors on the HTC to directly mounted on the goggles themselves.

    1) adaptive optics research:
    http://news.stanford.edu/press-releases/2017/02/13/personalized-virs-match-eyesight/

    2) pixel density versus retinal resolution optimisation:
    http://www.roadtovr.com/understandi...and-why-its-important-for-vr-and-ar-headsets/

    ...put all that together and you have VR goggles that are in a completely different league to what's on the market right now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017 at 12:46 AM
  20. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Member

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    Hi Muz,
    I am using SLI bridge. That thin flexible wire thingy between the 2 GTX980 , but not the new HB version, hence I said the common version.:D
     
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