dumb AI behaviour

Discussion in 'Technical & Support' started by Forcer77, May 15, 2023.

  1. Forcer77

    Forcer77 Registered

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    it's McLaren Senna DLC

    have a lot of such incidents while racing with AI. AI just ram into me like I'm not there in the corner at all. Collision detections are broken and doesn't work as it should. AI is too aggressive in many situations, they chase me so hard that they try to overtake me even by cutting corners and ride off the track or hitting walls even though I set the aggression value to zero.
    Apart from that AI drivers are not careful enough in open wheel car racing, they push me or get their wheel caught on my wheel (and both cars get mixed up with each other). AI should definitely be more careful and considerate with formula cars and keep more distance from my car (at least because formula cars are much more sensitive to collisions than GT cars). So open-wheel car racing against AI often ends up being a mess and a disaster. I have to restart race again and again after another AI stupitity :mad:
    Unfortunately I have to admit that at the moment racing with AI is far from being fun and enjoyable as it should be :(
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2023
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  2. ThomasJohansen

    ThomasJohansen Registered

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    My experience is, that it's quite track depended. Cant see what track it is but do you have same problems on official tracks?

    normally I use AI aggression 45% and AI limit 0.
    But maybe you should try and work on you braking, and try to brake later?
    In the video it looks like you slow down on your turn exit, and not speeding up.
    Maybe also try to block AI to not give them the chance to overtake.
     
  3. Forcer77

    Forcer77 Registered

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    As you can see on this video I made a little mistake - miss the apex and drive through this corner not by optimal line. But it doesn't justify stupid AI move, it had a huge amount of space on the right but still drive exactly into me as like he ignored me or didn't see me at all. I noticed that many times - if you chose different from optimal line in the corners AI still often drives stubbornly as if my car is not in its path
     
  4. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    You corner entry speed was very slow compared to the AI, the car that hit you had already slowed down and was hit by the third car which propelled the 2nd car into you. While there was indeed plenty of space to your right, the AI was unable to alter his line due to the hit from behind. If your car had escaped, he still would have slammed into the wall.
     
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  5. Forcer77

    Forcer77 Registered

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    nope :confused: look carefully third car didn't even touch 2nd car. And my speed wasn't very slow. It is 90-degrees turn and I was like 10-15 kmh slower than usually. And anyway there's no any reason for ramming because if you would race multi-class cars and you drive slower car then how do you suppose to race alongside with faster classes if they are going to ram you like mad every time you slow down in the corners (at least because your car can't go any faster)?
     
  6. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    I agree with others that this seems a quirky situation. I'm not sure real drivers would have correctly predicted your driving and been careful enough to be able to brake on time without understeering and hitting you the same.

    And as it has already been said, AI is dependent on the track. Some tracks have better AI implementation than others. Tracks with hard barriers also leave little margin for corrections. Does it happen in other tracks?
     
  7. Forcer77

    Forcer77 Registered

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    I made some new videos to demonstrate that rF2 AI needs to be reworked. On these videos you can see some typical AI faults. In general, I can say that the AI has improved since the last update, but it is still far from perfect. Basically this concerns high-speed open-wheels cars, on slower GT cars the AI seems to behave a little better.
    Car: MCLAREN MP4/8 - 1993 by Studio 397
    Tracks: Donington and RedBull Ring
    Settings: AI strength 100%, AI aggression 5%, AI limiter 5%
    1.

    on this video you see typical dumb AI ramming. I just deviated a little from the ideal path in the corner and went through it a little bit slower than usual, and this was enough for the AI to crash into me right there. And funny fact that on other laps in the same corner the AI cars sometimes slowed down much more than me and I had to slam on the brakes as hard as I could to avoid a collision.
    2.

    and here it's a typical AI divebombing in braking zone. You can see that AI was far behind of me before the corner but suddendly divebombing me in braking zone and I didn't even notice and didn't expect it.
    and for those who still decide to blame me for this collision, I want to say that I set the AI aggression to 5%, that is AI should be as attentive and careful as possible, otherwise why even then this AI aggression setting exists if it does not work and even on 5% AI is so aggressive??
    3.

    another example of AI ramming into me without any reason. I am on inner side of the corner and AI doesn't give a damn on it although I leave a lot of space for AI here. It seems that AI is blind and even doesn't see my car. Maybe AI collision detections doesn't work properly for some reasons??
    4.

    this is Red Bull Ring circuit from workshop and this video shows you that AI tends to cut corners when trying to overtake (even on 5% aggression) and doesn't respect track boundaries. sometimes AI just drives out onto the grass and loses control of the car. This happens not only on this track but also on many others. It seems to me that on slower cars AI behaves more decently.
    5.

    and last video by me :) and another example of a stupid groundless battering ram. You can see that AI has a lot of space to pass me on the right side but it decides to ram my car.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2023
  8. redapg

    redapg Registered

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    @Forcer77 Did you try that with the same Cars on a newer official Track too?
    Sometimes 3rd Party Tracks have "bad" made AIW Files, that sometimes can cause totally weird AI Behaviour.
    If it happens on newer official Tracks too, it could confirm, that it is basic Bug.
     
  9. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    I concur with @redapg, these tests should be done using official content, or else we won't know who's to blame.
     
  10. DJCruicky

    DJCruicky Registered

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    I've seen all the 5 examples above also. Even on my tracks.

    In example 4 the Red Bull track corner cutting, it's what redapg says, it's a small 3rd party error on track.
    The AI corridors are on the curb (blue lines).
    20230626140210_1.jpg
    The AI are forgiven for that example.
     
  11. Forcer77

    Forcer77 Registered

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    thanks for reply! but I can only agree with you about the fourth video of mine. I mean AIW files really are responsible for AI cutting corners and keeping the right path and track boundaries but have nothing to do with AI aggressivness, awareness of the presence of player's and other cars on the track and collission detections with player's car... All of these are hard-coded in-game values and only devs can fix that how good and correctly AI keeps the distance to player's car and avoid collisions and stupid moves. You can't do it just by editing AIW.
    So I can do the same testing with official S397 circuits but it will not help to get better AI in this matter
     
  12. redapg

    redapg Registered

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    AIW Files with weird Pathes can cause weird Behaviour too, so it worths it to check them, for the Tracks where it happens.
    Especially when they are 3rd Party Tracks.
    But i have seen now, that you also had it happening on Donington.
    Is that the official S397 Donington?
     
  13. Forcer77

    Forcer77 Registered

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    nope...it's third-party track too
     
  14. redapg

    redapg Registered

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    Workshop or do you have a Link?
     
  15. redapg

    redapg Registered

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    @Forcer77 Is the Red Bull Ring this one: sm_Red_Bull_Ring_v1.3 .rfcmp?
     
  16. Forcer77

    Forcer77 Registered

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  17. Manfredk2

    Manfredk2 Guest

    i think you will see this ramming on each track. Seems like the AI does not recognize the players car and maybe other cars. I just did some tests adjusting mirrors and was a bit slow on the track. The AI drove several times full speed in my car, without trying to overtake as it should
     
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  18. redapg

    redapg Registered

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    Sorry, but i doubt that this is a Code Problem.
    Here is a Video with the MP4/8 on RedBull Ring, AI Strength 100%, Agression 5%, Limiter 5% and they behave like they should.
    @Forcer77 In your Videos i see other Skins.
    Can it be that you use a Skin Pack, that maybe has a corrupted/bad Talent File or something like that?
    Did you test with only the original MP4/8 1.30 too?
     
  19. redapg

    redapg Registered

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    Same here on Senormen Donington.
    The AI tries to avoid a Crash with me and only crashes into me, because they where pushed a little bit by other AI Cars.
     
  20. Forcer77

    Forcer77 Registered

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    definitely! that's what I said!
    of course it doesn't happen all the time :) mostly AI tries to avoid ramming and collisions...because if it happens all the time it would be just disgusting and completely terrible... but what I tried to explain that sometimes AI becomes unable to recognize the player's car or see it and makes some stupid moves like ramming, divebombing, collision...it's hard-coded problems.. I assume that it's some problem with AI calculation - sometimes it goes wrong and AI misses something and it leads to dumb AI behaviour
     
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