Driving style difference between RF2 and Iracing?

[Rapala]

I'm far from being an alien but I'm also far from being a noob. If I had to rate my driving, I'm somewhere around Gamer Muscle (youtube guy) who I've had close battles with in the past on Assetto.
In Iracing, I'm generally within 2 seconds a lap of the Aliens at your average 1:30 - 2:00 a lap track and in the Formula Renault I'm often within a second of the fastest guys.

But in RF2, although it FEELS like my competency is similar, I'm just so woefully far behind the top guys in the few RD races I've done it's just embarrassing. Eg, in the WFG at silverstone, the best I managed was 2:01 and it felt like I absolutely nailed every apex, so 4 seconds slower than the best times, just hopeless. ( I also had a setup others at the session were doing 1:58's, so def not a setup issue)

So I wanted to ask, those that have played both what the main differences in style is. My suspicions:

• Harder trail-braking possible in RF2 which means later brake points than might feel possible
• When accelerating out an apex, a greater willingness to push the slip angle and ride it. In Iracing in most cars pushing a slip angle is a death wish

Am I right? Any others?

 

[patchedupdemon]

Im usually 1-1.5 seconds off of the fastest in iracing depending on series,in some I'm 0.5 secs off.or I should say was as I haven't touched iracing for four months since I got into rf2.
It's definitely a different situation here,here you have to be on the limit to get the laptimes,in iracing you have to stay away from the limit to be fast,due to the tyre model and how heat is created and how it dissipates.
Some people on iracing have claimed you have to over drive in rf2 to be fast,which is wrong,because they have been idoctrined to stay a at from the limit,they think riding that limit here is overdriving.
I don't know the what makes the aliens here aliens as I haven't compared my laps to them or even races anyone yet,but From my experience,finding that limit and making love to it over the corse of the lap being my laptime down,which is the opposite in iracing,you have to go slow to go fast so to say.
Sorry this didn't answer your question,as I'm basically in the same position as you I can't add anything more.

 

[SPASKIS]

If in a racing game, to be fast you have to keep away from the limits, nothing else should be said about it.

 

[F1Aussie]

I have found that you can brake deeper into the corners in rf2 than in other sims, the brakes jsut seem to work better.

 

[hitm4k3r]

I'm far from being an alien but I'm also far from being a noob. If I had to rate my driving, I'm somewhere around Gamer Muscle (youtube guy) who I've had close battles with in the past on Assetto.
In Iracing, I'm generally within 2 seconds a lap of the Aliens at your average 1:30 - 2:00 a lap track and in the Formula Renault I'm often within a second of the fastest guys.

But in RF2, although it FEELS like my competency is similar, I'm just so woefully far behind the top guys in the few RD races I've done it's just embarrassing. Eg, in the WFG at silverstone, the best I managed was 2:01 and it felt like I absolutely nailed every apex, so 4 seconds slower than the best times, just hopeless. ( I also had a setup others at the session were doing 1:58's, so def not a setup issue)

So I wanted to ask, those that have played both what the main differences in style is. My suspicions:

• Harder trail-braking possible in RF2 which means later brake points than might feel possible
• When accelerating out an apex, a greater willingness to push the slip angle and ride it. In Iracing in most cars pushing a slip angle is a death wish

Am I right? Any others?

I can't talk about iRacing, but in AC the tires are a bit more forgiving and you get away with more violent driving, that's atleast what I notice when I swap between the sims. My personal feeling for my style of driving is, that you get faster the more you wrestle the car around in AC as the consequences aren't that severe. In rF2 you have to watch your tire temps more etc. When you slide too much in one corner your tire temps will increase over the optimum range and affect the handling in the following corners considerably. At the end you will lose your momentum when overdriving the car simply by overheating the tyres. The same thing applies for lockups and wheelspins, though that shouldn't be too much of an issue with the McLaren. Allthough it is a good to keep some slip on the rear end of the car to help turing faster. So in that regard I would say that hard trail breaking is certainly possible in rF2 but you shouldn't overdo it. Prime example for this and where you can practice alot is Brooklands and Luffield.

 

[yusupov]

yeah, the past couple days ive been giving rf2 a go for the first time in awhile. compared to any other sim, tire temps seem to play a huge role. don't know if it's a style i simply have to adapt to or if it's still plagued by a lot of really bad baseline setups. so far i find i'm distinctly uncomfortable & very wary of driving at my limit; the F1 fanatic in me finds it interesting but i don't know if it should be as big an issue as it seems...that said i shd probably re-acclimate in an easier car instead of indy/fast openwheel types...

 

[patchedupdemon]

I have found that you can brake deeper into the corners in rf2 than in other sims, the brakes jsut seem to work better.

That's one of the first things I noticed and loved about rf2,in iracing the braking faze is so short,i don't know how to correctly say this but with the same pedals,rf2 gives me more resolution for the same amount of pedal throw/travel,that's true with the all pedals.
It's like in rf2 going from 0-100% pedal travel is more detailed while in iracing you go from 0-100% in 10-15% jumps.
Probably makes no sense at all lol

 

[Peyo Peev]

AC has way less slip angle on the tyres. You loose a lot if let the back go or try to help yourself with the rear axle, talking about gt3s. RF2 is different story. I was disappointed when i found that AC is really missing this key factor. But the 650s really likes to be thrown into the corners and at its best to keep the wheel centered without needing more correction, either of oversteer or understeer.

 

[Jon]

If in a racing game, to be fast you have to keep away from the limits, nothing else should be said about it.

Nothing is truer than that. Jim Clark in his time was not just the fastest, but also those who worked with him said they could easily tell which brake discs and tyres were his because after a two hour race they would seem as good as new, and could last several races, unlike his team mate's.

The fastest guy in the Lotus 49 in iRacing offered all of us some training once, and he picked up instantly on a few bad habits I was making, one of which was braking too little for a corner. Ideally, as you probably know, it's best to brake sufficiently so you can accelerate at the correct angle as soon as possible. If you enter the corner even a tad too fast, although you'll make the corner you won't be able to exit it at correct angle so as to make the perfect exit and put your foot down at the ideal moment. Any tyre spin should be avoided at least at first, if you hear your tyres spinning and loosing grip then it's probably best to reduce the entry into that corner, then over time gradually build it up. Though I'm sure you know all this from iRacing, which I why I believe other factors are involved:

1. Many of tracks and cars have been available for about three years. This gives a huge advantage to those long-term rFactor driver who know each track (at least their favourite ones) off by heart, and have no doubt perfected not just their driving line but their setups as well.

2. When someone shared his setup with me for the Spark F1 I noticed the Brake Pedal force was set to 70%. This option was missing in iRacing, but it essentially means you can brake effectively without tyre spin. For me, as I mentioned before in another thread, it does feel a little like a cheat, as it makes the car feel like it has traction control. But it does make a difference to lap-times.

I've been well off the pace as well, I was okay in the Spark F1 at Spa '66 but about seven seconds off the pace in the F3 car at the same track in a recent Sim Racers 4 Life fun event on Sunday.

That being said I've been on an online server on two separate occasions at Spa '66 with two different guys. They were both extremely friendly and were even watching my laps and offered advice. Not to mention driving slower in order that we could drive alongside each other so I could gauge his driving line and where he was braking. We also practiced over taking each other in a non-competitive manner on a notoriously difficult track to do it safely.

But I think the key reason is the first, some of the long-timers have had extensive practice on these circuits and know them and the car off by heart. But try to find an empty server on a track and car you like, then perhaps you'll meet someone who is particularly fond of that combo and may well help you out. Ultimately though, as with anything, it just takes time and practice. You may never be the best, but no doubt you'll be up there with the best.

 

[Lazza]

When someone shared his setup with me for the Spark F1 I noticed the Brake Pedal force was set to 70%. This option was missing in iRacing, but it essentially means you can brake effectively without tyre spin. For me, as I mentioned before in another thread, it does feel a little like a cheat, as it makes the car feel like it has traction control. But it does make a difference to lap-times.

Unless the brakes are actually too strong for the car/tyres, limiting brake strength is about making it easier to drive (and/or more consistent) at the expense of laptime potential. The aliens don't limit their braking ability.

 

[Jon]

Unless the brakes are actually too strong for the car/tyres, limiting brake strength is about making it easier to drive (and/or more consistent) at the expense of laptime potential. The aliens don't limit their braking ability.

I thought as much, that's why I've been steadily increasing it. Brake bias plays an important role as well. Just curious as to why this option is in rFactor but not iRacing.

 

[SPASKIS]

Brake bias is adjusted on the fly for every turn in Formula1 nowadays. Michael Schumacher was very much obsessed with this.

 

[Jon]

Brake bias is adjusted on the fly for every turn in Formula1 nowadays. Michael Schumacher was very much obsessed with this.

Sadly it's not available on the fly in the Brabham Already tried it. In fact I don't believe any thing can be done on the fly in Brabham, I've already tested all settings. Only one, which was called something like increment fuel pressure, or something like that, when assigned to a button wouldn't give out a warning saying unavailable. Not sure what it does though.

 

[SPASKIS]

Well

Sadly it's not available on the fly in the Brabham Already tried it. In fact I don't believe any thing can be done on the fly in Brabham, I've already tested all settings. Only one, which was called something like increment fuel pressure, or something like that, when assigned to a button wouldn't give out a warning saying unavailable. Not sure what it does though.

Changing brake bias on the fly was probably not available at those ages.

 

[ebeninca]

I'm far from being an alien but I'm also far from being a noob. If I had to rate my driving, I'm somewhere around Gamer Muscle (youtube guy) who I've had close battles with in the past on Assetto.
In Iracing, I'm generally within 2 seconds a lap of the Aliens at your average 1:30 - 2:00 a lap track and in the Formula Renault I'm often within a second of the fastest guys.

But in RF2, although it FEELS like my competency is similar, I'm just so woefully far behind the top guys in the few RD races I've done it's just embarrassing. Eg, in the WFG at silverstone, the best I managed was 2:01 and it felt like I absolutely nailed every apex, so 4 seconds slower than the best times, just hopeless. ( I also had a setup others at the session were doing 1:58's, so def not a setup issue)

So I wanted to ask, those that have played both what the main differences in style is. My suspicions:

• Harder trail-braking possible in RF2 which means later brake points than might feel possible
• When accelerating out an apex, a greater willingness to push the slip angle and ride it. In Iracing in most cars pushing a slip angle is a death wish

Am I right? Any others?

If you configure the diferrential and Springs correctly you can run with no wing in almost every car. It gives you a big improvement in lap times.

In iracing its not possible because of the tire model.

 

[green serpent]

I can't comment on iracing too extensively because I've only ever driven the mx-5 (although I did drive it A LOT), but from my own experience and from what others have said, to be fast in iracing you just have to be very smooth with all inputs - I'm talking millimeter precision smooth (I used to drive with my elbows on the arm rests of my chair and drive with my finger tips).

I don't find this to be the case with rF2. Maybe it's just my current skill level, but if I try to be super smooth and drive within the limit (as others have suggested above), I'm 3-4 seconds off from the aliens in rF2. Perhaps it's only my driving style, but I only ever get close to the aliens when I'm very late on the brakes, get the car rotated on corner entry and do a small four wheel drift at the apex - basically driving slightly over the limit of both the front and rear tyre through the entire corner.

If in rF2 you just smoothly feed in steering input iracing style, you'll get understeer, and won't be utilizing the rear tyre fully. You need to get the car up on it's toes and load up the front and rear outside tyre together. If you're not slightly sliding, you're going too slow.*

*personal opinion, feel free to disagree!

Not to flog my own video, but the exact thing I'm talking about is in slow-mo at 0:17, 0:38 and 0:42. (okay I only got a 1:59 which is a few seconds off the pace... but I totally stuffed up Luffield where I pushed too hard and rotated the car too much, plus I also caught over-steer on the out lap.)

 

[Jon]

Well

Changing brake bias on the fly was probably not available at those ages.

Yeah I actually wrote a reply saying it wasn't available in the Brabham, but for some reason it didn't post. In fact the only adjustment I could find that could be done on the fly without seeing the 'not available error message' was something called Increase Fuel Pressure, but I can't remember exactly what it was called. I'll have a look when I'm next online. I'm sure drivers at that time were able to do certain adjustments while driving, using their trusty spanner Though not sure whether any have been implemented in rFactor.

 

[Amanda Santini]

If in a racing game, to be fast you have to keep away from the limits, nothing else should be said about it.

Exactly.

Although a more in-depth view on this problem is certainly appreciated: https://pretendracecars.net/2017/04/05/why-i-chose-not-to-return-to-iracing/

the tires do not take kindly to generating any sort of heat. Ever wonder why your first lap at speed is always the fastest, and the car drops off like a rock afterwards? Cold tires are faster [in iRacing]. I’ll let you process that for a second.

The more you heat up your tires, the less grip you have, which means unlike how a real driver would go out and properly work in their set of racing slicks to optimal grip levels before plateauing for a few laps and then proceeding to naturally fall off, iRacing’s tires operate best at room temperature, and get progressively worse in what feels like a linear fashion from zero until they liquefy at a temperature of 230 – which is where the iRacing death slide so many cars exhibit comes from. Once a tire hits that magic number on the nose, the car immediately tries to kill you.

 

[patchedupdemon]

Exactly.

Although a more in-depth view on this problem is certainly appreciated: https://pretendracecars.net/2017/04/05/why-i-chose-not-to-return-to-iracing/

It's funny that iracing members proclaim the tyre model to be the best on the market,but yet it doesn't carter for localised heating,if you lock a tyre,the whole tyre gets heated exactly the same as the contact patch,the tyre model is made up of 6-8 bagels that run the circumference of the tyre,so no cross sections at all.

This is the main reason why the tyres melt,also because the claim tyres only cool through contact with the track,and not through air contacting the tyre.

 

[peterchen]

If you configure the diferrential and Springs correctly you can run with no wing in almost every car. It gives you a big improvement in lap times.

In iracing its not possible because of the tire model.

You mean in rF2 or real life?
For rF2 that´s not true (at least not for some mods).