Documentation provided for modding might be plenty but all spreadout is useless

Discussion in 'Track Modding' started by SPASKIS, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. maxredbull

    maxredbull Registered

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    Hi guys,
    I just started to read this post!
    Super interesting ^^
    just for you thank has everything make tutorials to better wehelp achieve but also to understand how it works.
    To talk about your Spaskis tutorial, I always has not successfully convert a track has my great regret! but I continue...
    Just to say that if you do the tutorials to convert or create zero circuits, cars, object!
    I think qu it y in many like me who are going to put this to make thing bele.
    Don't forget that some as me parte zero knowledge and in addition I have trouble with English, so on your tutorial, I mostly watch or your mouse click and I did the same thing...
    I surely Magnifier much explanation.Ésiter not did well DeSilva your actions even if it looks very simple for you.Fingers crossed that one day I get to create a circuit and spaskis you will be the firstname ^ ^

    PS: there are 5 yrs I knew not serve me Photoshop, and thanks to the tutorial and vary as well as plenty of time and practice, I do what I want with!

    PS2: sorry for mistakes I always converted that I reads and writes in English
     
  2. Dany Mitchel

    Dany Mitchel Registered

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    When you make a tutorial you make it for the Laymen You Must assume that every person who is going to use your tutorial has NO IDEA ON HOW TO DO IT. Including the shot cut keys being used and You should Break down your tutorial into a format that has bullet headings allowing for more accomplished people to move forward quicker but every detail must be included or it is not a tutorial it is a " Look at how good I am at Modding and Here is a few bits of information as well" Videos Tutorials should never contain Music and the Person making the Tutorial needs to have already set their Microphone to a clear undistorted level. If the person making the tutorial cant follow these simple rules then they are just a part video and no tutorial.

    Anyone wanting to set up the rf1 or rf2 Max Plugins should take a look at this and the Guys other Movies

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_klLNai_ZNE

    he also has a great forum Here

    http://nsrs.jawcentral.com/forum/default.asp
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2013
  3. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Thanks dany just what i need now!
    I'll take a look at it this afternoon

    Enviado desde mi GT-I9505 usando Tapatalk 2
     
  4. ethone

    ethone Registered

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    Message understood, I'll make sure not to produce any tutorials.
     
  5. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Ethone,

    This attitude is not proper of you. If you have produced tutorials, which you probably had, is because you are a generous guy who wants to share your knowledge to help other people. Also it gives you some recognition and you are, for sure, more likely to be helped by other modders when you are in trouble. You are one of the persons that is always there when someone asks a question and you can provide an answer to it or at least what your experience says.

    Humans do not easily accept critics, no matter if they are constructive or not. It is just like that and nothing to be ashamed of. This is even more true when what is criticized has been done to help the one who is criticizing. It is also truth that this natural reaction is usually a cerebral defensive reflex I would describe. However, after cooling down usually things are seen in a different way

    However, if you really want to help another person, you need to try to understand what that person needs and if it doesn't fully match what you have done, do not get pissed about it. I know it is time consuming to do tutorials but it is also time consuming and frustrating to follow one to finally end up basically as in the beginning.

    Think for a moment the reason why Dany has said what he has said. Do you really think he wants to discourage toturial makers for doing taht job? Or maybe he is saying that in order to avoid them losing their time doing something that might not be useful at all?
    I am sure you have not thought it this way.

    Doing a tutorial is not very different from making a track. You want others to use and the more people you use it, the prouder you are of it. However if you do not listen to the drivers comments and suggestions that will never happen.
    The problem is that sometimes to make others see that you are having problems you have to be quite energic in the mesage. When I criticize the way I do for the things ISI is doing wrong is because I think it is more effective than being kind and sweet. Experience says it works better. If you have kids you will understand what I mean. I am not saying othe ways are not effective but inmy opinion much less.

    If this finally puts you down from helping other people would mean to me that your ego is bigger than your generosity. Do not let me think that, PLEASE. I think you are one of the most generous guys in this forum and that your reaction is coming from the disappointment produced by a critic, which constructive or destructive we never take it easy. Please, don't take this personally and think about it... Whatever you decide I will accept. Sorry for if the way I say things can bother you I assure you it is not my intention.
     
  6. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    It was a pretty crap post though, demanding microphone settings lol. Its responses like that that makes people think, ah well, not even going to bother.

    As Ethone showed here, and I had the same reaction in the other thread.

    Imo we talk too much and nothing happens, this not the first time the wiki was mentioned yet only Kknorpp took the bull by the horns and is doing something in an effort to centralize things. despite the whining btw.

    I think creating a few mod-articles in the isi-wiki, even if it just has links to useful info, is a good start. anything new that comes along can be added.
    The fact that's its based at ISI is its strongest selling point imo. that's the most centralized we can have it. the first place people will look.
    so even if its just a collection of links to tutorials, articles, other wikis and whatnot, it would serve allot of people.
     
  7. ethone

    ethone Registered

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    I thoroughly reject the notion that anyone in the community can claim any entitlements to modder's effort and work. Likewise I reject the notion that modders can claim any entitlements to other modder's effort.

    I am horrified that we seem to have reached the point where other modders now demand information from other modders. I will not engage with this kind of community.

    A week ago I considered livestreaming how I work on Le Mans. I checked out broadcasting software and did a test run. I already checked with our team if there were any objections.
    Do you think I will bother with all the effort now? I can apparently expect to hear how my microphone is not loud enough or there's too much ambient noise. Or how I should have explained how to turn on a computer first because I should presume everyone is a layman?

    Spaskis, I think you put your thoughts a bit unfortunately and didn't get your main point across too well at first. That's fine, I think we now understand what you meant. I applaud your willingness to take lead on bringing tutorials together. I hope you succeed and wish you the best of luck.
     
  8. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Thanks ethone and Denstjiro for your feedback. I will contact kknorpp and try to see if we can get together in TS to start organizing things. He is a great guy and like me enjoys posting in this forum. I am not sure where is he from but I have looked in his profile and after seeing this words "Math, science, systems & logic" I am sure we will understand each other. That is what I am best at as well :)
     
  9. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    With all due respect Ethone, I think that's overreacting a bit. its just one guy with his comments, its not 'the community' he speaks for, nor are combined individual opinions a guideline for any consensus. You can also decide to ignore such a comment, its a choice.


    I understand its not just the one opinion and you have been doing this long enough to have seen much more and much worse, and that might explain the short fuse, but on the other hand, if you want to do something and feel the need to share or help, you can do that regardless of what anyone says.
    There will be many more people enjoying stuff like your blog then there will be people feeling the need to talk bs about it. that should be the focus point imo.

    The only point we have reached was a guy making a post which seemed questionable at best, and easily ignored if needed. for the rest I don't think we have ever reached a point, nor will we in the future. its already too fragmented and too opinionated. And every day is a new day :)
     
  10. CosmiC10R

    CosmiC10R Registered

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    +1 on Denstjiros post here...

    I would love to see how you work on lemans ethone and I know Spaskis would to.. seriously...

    That is a really cool idea to live stream and I would take time off work to watch it!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2013
  11. Dany Mitchel

    Dany Mitchel Registered

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    LMAO!! It is not demanding Or Crap it is just good practice what is the point of spending hours on making a tutorial only to find that you Microphone level was off and you cant hear clearly what is being said, with a response like that I doubt any of you have ever seen a real tutorial, and If what I say everyone already knows it why are you about to remake or even make for the 1st time tutorials on how to map a track. I was getting at anyone here or pointing finger I was pointing out how a tutorial was made but if you all want to flame me go ahead Ill no be the One wasting hours on my time making a tutorial that is below standards and useless at it's task and all you that took my post personal lmao who are you or who do you think you are GOD grow up little boy, I am out of here to many children about Ill go to a more adult learn center not primary school i Will leave you with your crayons
     
  12. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    Fair enough Dany, apologies for using the word crap. that was uncalled for as it was just my opinion. and since I am a little boy I think you should give me some slack, as a child I obviously don't know any better.

    For the rest, the goal of a tutorial is to communicate information. how its done is open for debate, you don't even need to use a mic, you could also use subtitles, sign-language, whatever.

    As for things 'everyone knows'....if everyone knows, there is no need to state the obvious in such a degrading manner, assuming someone does something because they feel better then others because they are modders. that's way too much my friend. and silly.

    Also, learning people shortcut keys, not wanting music innit, what else? should a track-maker video also contain guidelines such as: 'a first turn is always either a left turn or a right turn, if this is not the case with your track, please restart the video.'
    If someone makes a video, its their choice to do whatever they want, not your place to demand silliness . if they mess up with mic settings, wrong info, mistakes, whatever, then that's it, their problem, just load the next video.

    I understand what you want, I think everyone does, and you are right as well, good tutorials have certain characteristics, but you really should work on your communication skills a bit more. the way you are talking just rubs people the wrong way and your goal (clear tutorials) will not be reached because people will spend their time being annoyed with you.

    And since we seem to be sharing tips, here are a few on communication:
    1: be polite
    2: don't assume too much
    3: don't be an ass
    4: don't reflect your own personal issues on others
    5: ????
    6: profit
     
  13. ethone

    ethone Registered

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    It was a destructive, pointless and useless post though, so you weren't that far off.

    If I may add a tip:
    People respond much better to helpful advice than having unconstructive criticism thrown in their face.
     
  14. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I don't agree with you. It actually does say things that sure some people will take into account if they ever make a tutorial. I have reread it and the only "offensive" thing is when he says that some people do tutorias to show how good they are. I think it is not the reason in most cases. They just dont realize. He might not have been very polite with it, but he is giving advice to avoid some people from a useless effort due to some details that could actually spoil a great tutorial.

    I would give some advice as well as how to read a post.

    Try to get the point of the writer.
    Dont feel attacked all the time.
    Understand that is not easy to express when writing due to the lack of tone and limited people's time to write which takes quite a lot of time to do right.

    Enviado desde mi GT-I9505 usando Tapatalk 2
     
  15. ethone

    ethone Registered

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    I don't know what's worse, the suggestion that he might not have understood what idiocy he posted or that he actually might not have known.

    How come it is fine for him to demand silliness from people who put in work for him, but it is not fine for me to call him out on it?
     
  16. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Closed thread for me. I am done with this. You should better distinguish when you are really being attacked. You are calling him an idiot and i dont want to enter to personal offenses. Nobody called you an idiot and you did.

    Enviado desde mi GT-I9505 usando Tapatalk 2
     
  17. Bink

    Bink Registered

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    So..... one person's crapulence is another's ideal.
     

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