Discussion about tyres.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Slip_Angel, Aug 13, 2019.

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  1. Eddy

    Eddy Member

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    That isn't Marussia. Don't see the wheel.....no abuse as far as i'm concerned.

    Carry on i'm out
     
  2. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    I couldnĀ“t notice something strange of abusing tyes in the video. What you can see is only the surface temperature and It's totally normal for it to rise and fall very quickly.

     
  3. Slip_Angel

    Slip_Angel Registered

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    front more higher temp than rear ? even though i was on throttle throughout corners?
    Mid engine car,rwd only,on throttle throughout corner still front have more temperature.
    This doesn't seem logical to me.
     
  4. Slip_Angel

    Slip_Angel Registered

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    Okay
     
  5. JimmyT

    JimmyT Registered

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    I don't know about the Marussia as I don't drive it but I had an online race on Saturday night using APEX GT3 Merc and totally shredded the front tyres in 10 laps at Watkins Glen, through abuse. Once I really started to get them hot (after 2 laps) the wear stepped up almost exponentially. It was due to understeer from pushing way too hard through the corners with a front end that was a little too stiff and tyre pressure a touch too high. The rear tyres were still in the green at the and of the race while fronts were down to about 20%.
    The APEX models use the new tyre model I believe. Sorry I can't post a vid here but I don't record replays (the overhead on my system is too high with replay).
     
  6. Slip_Angel

    Slip_Angel Registered

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    that is the flaw in new tyres,the front end heats more than rear in rwd cars(fwd cars are absolutely broken).
    In the video i posted above i wasn't even pushing hard as i can(this was more on limit)and still front end was heating more and gripping like nothing is wrong.
    I'm not against rising temperatures on front tyres but relative to rear tyres ON THROTTLE the front still heats up more,This is the problem.
     
  7. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Based on what???!
     
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  8. SebS

    SebS Registered

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    If the car under steer of course the front tire will be hotter than rear. Even if it's mid engine rwd....
    Over steer and the rear tire will go hotter than the front...
     
  9. Slip_Angel

    Slip_Angel Registered

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    So it is okay to get higher temp on front even when i'm not understeering? because in video i posted i was not understeering and front tyre temp were high despite i was on throttle only went down to 50%.
     
  10. SebS

    SebS Registered

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    Under steer is a feeling. Every person driving have a different feeling. Maybe over steer for you is underwear for me. Depend on the way you drive your car.
    The back of the car is not loosing grip. Otherwise you would be correcting the wheel angle to not go sideway. So that's means you under steer a bit. More friction on the front than the rear. More temp.
     
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  11. SebS

    SebS Registered

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    On your video there is no over steer. The car is well balance but maybe for your driving technique you prefer a slight under steer. So you think you over steer because you don't feel confident in this situation. But you are not. Just depend on people. Can't see anything bad on your video.
     
  12. Slip_Angel

    Slip_Angel Registered

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    Thanks for info i will look into it more
     
  13. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    Since the front wheels give the direction, this is perfectly normal in wide areas of the corners that the front wheels are loaded more because the weight in it is anxious to simply roll straight ahead, while the front wheels must provide the grip for the change of direction. The rear wheels just follow. Of course the whole thing is setup dependent and there are also areas in curves when the first change of direction is done and you increase the steering angle where the rear axle can be overloaded, which also depends on the weight shift. The whole thing is simply a complex dynamic system with many variables consisting of downforce, setup, tyre width, speed, cornering radius, etc. You can't just decide from your stomach that the rear axle has to get hotter.

    Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
     
  14. SebS

    SebS Registered

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    And lmp cars have so much downforce. It's actually quite difficult to deal with over steer on those cars because it affect the aero when over steering. Easier to deal with under steer. If you go straight because of under steer the car still have the same aero.
     
  15. SebS

    SebS Registered

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    Also another problem you have in sim. In real life you feel the back of the car with your hip in the seat. In sim that's not possible. You feel it with your wheel. But when you feel it in your wheel on real life that's often already too late. So that's definitely easier to deal with under steer in sim.
     
  16. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    That seat feel is overrated. It of course helps, but it is overrated a lot. Also you don't feel precisely the rear end somehow. You may feel accelerations a bit, such as yaw angle acceleration, or changing angular acceleration as you go through the turn, which should actually decrease if you start slipping away.

    And sims has FFB that compensate on this, it actualyl overlaps with compensating input/output lag I'd suppose. Some sims like Assetto Corsa has it much overdone, but probably because their engine limitation (AC1) not because they decided to do so. However people loves when magic strings are beign pulled as soon as rear end gets little bit of slide, or even before it still at drivable slip angles. When SAT at that point should just be barely dropping away before starting to rise to the opposite direction.
     
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  17. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    Wow yes I agree with the ac ffb.. Not a huge fan of the exaggerated weight transfer in that.
     
  18. Slip_Angel

    Slip_Angel Registered

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    Yea AC is just overrated IMO.
    But anyways guys thanks for replying i got sufficient info to look into.I will just compare it on other sims and see how it feels.
     
  19. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    So thats what you call weight transfer haha I swear people has entirelly different things in mind when they talk about feel of weigth transfer, the feel of weight and mass haha

    But I dig why it associated with weight transfer for you, you feel how weight transfers from left to right or vice versa. But it is actually because aligning forces of the tire contact patch interacting with twisting of a chassis when rear steps out, same thing that makes wheel heavy when you turn into the curve, but just reversed. However I think it gets a bit more complex for oversteer because for usual turn in the input is your hands, so output comes directly, for oversteer it is different because output from oversteer effect happens while you are making an input of usual steering and oversteer (which is also know as overturning) should add up for your steering, so you should suddenly feel the wheel lighter, rather than immediately correcting into the slide by FFB. However it most definitely depends a lot on geometry, most definitely caster, wheelbase, inertia moments, friction, load on the wheels..... it goes complex lol
     
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  20. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    Feels like weight lol

    But OK what you said
     

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