Disappointing Steam sale.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Simulation_Player, Nov 24, 2022.

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  1. FAlonso

    FAlonso Registered

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    You are not alone, the price of the DLCs is incredible, although it is more incredible to see the responses on this topic justifying their price.:eek:
     
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  2. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    yea i don't get why they oppose to this as well. funnily enough if u go on kunos forum they will tell u ACC is superior/complex and here they tell rf2 is superior/complex, there is no objective reality to it.
     
  3. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    Not opposing to cheaper prices, but someone comes in comparing oranges to apples and saying they're the same and the debate starts. We all want cheaper prices, there's always someone thinking it's expensive and it's never too cheap. I think the prices are justified by the quality and the fact that they're updating the game for almost 10 years already. That's probably the best deal you can get in simracing. Cheaper prices can't be justified by comparing to other games that have diferent qualities and a different business model.
     
  4. FAlonso

    FAlonso Registered

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    It is obvious, each one chooses his simulator according to the sensations he finds. realism is not tangible. Simulator warfare aside, there is only one thing clear and that is that the price of the content in rF2 is very expensive compared to what Kunos sells. As I have already said in other sales, my money stays in my pocket for another year.
     
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  5. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    Ok this comment will objectively make argument of hugh price justification in rf2 fall.

    I can buy FIVE car recently released fully updated, for price of JUST ONE outdated rf2 car

    but rf2 so good....NO, i literally posted how rf2 is copy pasted physics on PAID dlc car with actual evidence motec ,screenshot......there you go whole argument of rf2 high price justification falling flat.

    Find me same or worse evidence for ACC otherwise you (opposition) are objectively wrong.
     
  6. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    Excluding sales, the cars that are generally always bought in packs or almost are at 3 euros.

    Moreover, they are extremely qualitative, I think we agree.

    The circuits are very well below 10 euros and are, I'm sure we all agree, extremely qualitative.

    Also lots of good content, usually not among the latest (which is logical), are very often on sale at different times of the year.

    So I don't see where the problem is, all the prices are justified by the quality and the choice of products that are on sale seems logical to me.

    I don't understand the complaints.

    What hardware do we have ?

    After having spent thousands of euros on all of the hardware, don't you find it normal to remunerate correctly and decently the developers of your super simulation.

    But everyone does what they want !
     
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  7. Gary_S85

    Gary_S85 Registered

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    No....that is how it works.
    Typically the tyre degrades, the wall will roll over on itself, it will feel very loose and punctures are then a risk. Also, the centre of the contact patch may risk not exerting enough pressure on the tarmac. So lower pressures only give optimal grip to a point.
     
  8. Gary_S85

    Gary_S85 Registered

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    So I've bitten my own bullet here and bought the Q4 pack today. So far I only drive at croft in the new bmw btcc car. My suspicions were sort of confirmed. The AI has improved a bit. The stabbing throttle and brake actions are gone.
    The ffb is still hit and miss. In the bmw at least, I can feel the oversteer when it happens strong enough and correct accordingly. But I can for the life of me feel any understeer when it happens. If I go in deep to a corner, I can add or take off steering lock and there is no noticeable ffb difference. I again get the usual "noise" from the road, kerbs etc, but when it comes to cornering loads, it's drowned out with the other stuff. That other stuff does add to the immersion though, albeit at the expense of realism and car control. You are always guessing what the car is about to do and by how much. I still had an enjoyable race, as mentioned the AI was quite good.
    I also tried to take the bmw on a lap of Monaco, but couldn't steer it out of the pits, not enough room to exit the garage without hitting the barrier.
    The croft track is nicely done, nice texture on kerbs and bumps, fairly challenging track.
    I also think the 330i is modeled really well. It looks great and will be a nice addition to my growing btcc content.
    I'll test out the lmh and other circuits tomorrow.
    Initial impressions are good, but more work to do. But definately steps in the right direction.
    I still would like to see older content fixed.
    Let's see what the next updates bring.
     
  9. Binny

    Binny Guest

    Buy what you can now as the world is in turmoil, energy problems & fuel prices will certainly make everything increase in price.
    As for the DLC prices i believe they are fair. I do agree it would be better not to force users to buy all content to use a CS.
    No new content this yr was going to get a discount, next yr yes.
    Happy xmas and a new yr. signing off for 2022.
     
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  10. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I think this topic has derailed a bit into wich sim offers what quality. It's no secret that Kunos copy and pasted physics for cars for AC, wich is fine as long as the general characteristics of a car are similar. So this isn't just a S397 thing. One thing about the complexity topic though, especialy comparing it to the Kunos products. It's fair to say that a AC car required less production time due to the simpler nature of the product. No rain, no lights, no pit limiters, no brakes, no radioators, no whipers ... there is quite a long list of stuff that AC cars simply don't offer. This isn't me saying the physics are crap - I still think it's a decent driving model - but longer production times require higher prices from my POV, unless you have such a huge player base and can simply grow the product using the economies of scales principle. Recent offerings by S397 have been fantastic in terms of overall quality (car and track wise) wich in my book justifies the general pricing. Updates have been deployed rapidly fast, wich speaks for S397 aswell. And if I am completely honest, the newest offerings have surpassed AC by far. Much better visuals, fidelity and sound. Everything comes out of the box wich is nice aswell and especialy the tracks are genre benchmark by now. I mean, have you seen a track like Bahrain with that much attention to detail from any other sim dev? I haven't. Everything is top notch.

    The thing that bothers me though is, that these sales aren't used more proactively to get new people hooked to the sim. I am a big fan anyway and I even find the normal prices for the Q1-Q4 packs a good deal. But the important point is to get this sim out to people who are on the fence and in that regard, there is still room for improvement. I think it doesn't make much sense to compare Kunos products to rF2 offerings at this point. Kunos are playing on a completely different level right now and have a big (successfull) publisher at hand. They can basicly lower the price to whereever they feel like it and simply checking the player numbers it's obvious that they did something right the last couple of years. AC is a perpetuum mobile in terms of cash income. Doesn't matter if you think rF2 is more realsitic or not.
     
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  11. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I wonder what a neat solution would look like, balancing existing users getting all the new content and making enough money to keep the game going, while also giving the new users the opportunity to get completely up to date without spending quite a lot - considering some of that content is old and outdated. All this without unduly annoying either group.

    We could be up to rF6 by now, with this one including all the BTCC cars and tracks and not able to run the GTE or Spa, Sebring etc. rF7 next year won't be able to run Donington due to licensing. $100 each year for the new version. That's how some other games do it.
     
  12. Gary_S85

    Gary_S85 Registered

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    There is lights and rain in AC. Anyway, you need to stop looking towards Kunos and making comments that they've a big publisher at hand. Kunos feeds the huge majority of profit into 505. In fact, the assetto corsa products is 505s most successful.

    People are giving rf2 a shot, myself included. I've had it a long time, as I've had all the sims. Rf2 is getting better for sure. But some ffb tweaking would be welcome. And some older content is just plain garbage. This old content is the free stuff that people first. The old f2 car or the Formula Renault etc, horrific ffb. Even the ligier and DPi has some weird ffb. The latest btcc etc is nice. Still not perfect but a big step in thr right direction. Hopefully the updates keep coming.
     
  13. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    You kind of missed my point a bit. There was no lights and rain to deal with in AC1 and the rain is still pretty much cosmetic. I still haven't seen a proper rain race on a server with networkable weather. In rF2 it works, for every goddamn car, even Karts. I know you could switch on and off the lights but they never really worked in the sense of being usable. Don't confuse what the community made out of it with what Kunos offered at the point when they stopped development. AC is a very bare bones racing sim, even when you use mods. Obviously it worked, but it also shows that the sim racing community is rather easy to please.

    Anyway, I would like to point out that you are underestimating 505 games completely, especialy compared to MSG. Ofcourse AC injects alot of cash return, but I hope you are aware of the fact that they played a big part in financing the console ports and lisencing agreements for ACC. If you really think that Kunos could have managed all that with their own money then I have to dissapoint you. And just to put your train of thought into perspesctive. They are the publisher for Kojima games. Do you have any idea how big that studio alone is? That's a studio with 100 employes alone. 505 games isn't some back alley publisher that nobody ever heard off like MSG.
     
  14. FAlonso

    FAlonso Registered

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    Yes I saw it


    I've also seen how detailed Kunos' cars are compared to rFactor's, but that doesn't make them more expensive. I have also seen the great licenses that Kunos, Ferrari, Porsche, Nordschlife among them have obtained without any extra cost, today the gt3 dlc from rFactor is more expensive than Assetto Corsa Competizione and most of its dlcs... I think the quality of the kunos content is indisputable.

    in ACC the tires lose pressure, in rF2 they don't... ACC Dlcs should be more expensive xD[/mode hitm4k3r OFF]
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
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  15. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    Yep there is no denying that ACC tracks are just as well done like rf2 if not better.
    Yet still Laser scanned track is more costly in rf2, comapred to ACC.
    Both offer LS tracks , so this is fairest possible comparison.

    Why are you comparing AC1 here ? ACC is miles better and simulates everything that you said is missing in AC1 plus more and yet still cheaper than rf2.

    And have you seen updates of ACC ? they infact massive addition to physics than what has rf2 done in similar time.
    Yet still cheaper than rf2.

    RF2 is not doing anything extra special to justify higher pricing.
     
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  16. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I am comparing the DLC situation to AC1, because it was brought up here at one point and becaus epeople told that it as lights and rain. And I think considering what you get in AC1 it's worth discussing it. Ofcourse ACC is miles better. That's called progress and it would have been wierd if Kunos hadn't made any progress from AC1. But it doesn't change the fact that both rF2 and ACC don't have the same play numbers. You are right, ACC tracks are of exceptional quality aswell. But then again, if the game feels disconnected and sluggish you won't feel that detail. You still need a NASA machine to get it run decent and look crisp and clear. The reason why an rF2 track is more expensive than an ACC track should be pretty clear by now. Much bigger player base, bigger publisher, so they can dictate the prices. Tbh, I don't follow ACC development that much anymore because I find the game boring - I played it last time in April. It's only a GT3, GT4 and some tin top series sim, where all the cars are somewhat similar - wich is to be expected - and it's obvious that you will make more physics advancements in such a closed eco system than in an open modding platform. People forget that you get tons of free mods with the rF2 prices compared to ACC where you are stuck with what the developer and publisher give you. I would also argue that we got quite a few neat features for rF2 during the last 12 months that aren't maybe directly connected to the car physics but have influence on the dirving. Anyway, if you want to drive GT3 cars till the end of your life then ACC will be the obvious choice ofcourse.

    I am just of the option that it isn't the pricing necessarily that is bad for rF2, considering all the circumstances, but how the big Steam sales are managed.
     
  17. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    At the moment, rF2 has a definite problem wrt value-for-money.
    This will depend somewhat on whether you intend to be an offline racer, or an online one. My main sim is iRacing, and I know, there are lots of complaints about the subscription model and pricing for that. But renewing each year with the Black Friday deal, its $82.50. For that, I can continue to race in all the series I want, and usually, it doesn't matter if new cars get added, I just continue on with the one or two cars I own in a certain class. I can only do that offline with rF2. If I want to use the Competition System, or even join a league, I have to be up-to-date and purchase all cars in that class, and even in classes I'm not intending to drive.
    Right now, GT3 single class racing, I own only the Mclaren and Audi GT3s in iRacing; they did retire the Merc GT3 I had, and I suspect that's about to be true of the Mclaren in mutliclass IMSA and also maybe the Audi in all race types, so I'll probably need to buy another one to continue competing. In rF2, I own all of the GT3, except for the recent BMW M4. I'm required to spend the $5.17 for that car if I want to compete online. For newer users, you have a GT3 Pack you can buy for $23.04, which is a good deal. But if you've done it by buying GT3s as they've been released, the incremental costs keep increasing, and you are pretty much forced into it.
    For multiclass endurance racing, LMP2 + GTE, I own a single Ferrari GTE and also the Dallara, so I can compete in any of those events. There's an rF2 endurance pack, for $43.44, and its got some other cars, but that's double the amount I paid in iRacing. It's eating into the iRacing sub cost...
    And finally, BTCC (closest competitor to TCR). It's this one that tips the scales. I bought the first 2 BTCC cars (and tracks) in a pack, but now I need the 3 additional BTCC cars plus also now the 2 additional British tracks. I can't do so in a pack. Thus, its $9.32 for Car Pack 2, plus $5.17 for the newest car, plus $7.24 x 2. That's about $30 bucks. And there are still 3 cars to go and another track probably to make the full set likely to be needed to compete online in future. Whereas for TCR on iRacing, I bought one car.
    In short, its much more of a problem for those who have bought content as you go, to "top up" the full set needed to compete online. I believe this is really hurting the CS system, and stopping that from growing as it could/should. Current pricing is designed for new players, not loyal customers.
     
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  18. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    You have some weird financial justifications where spending $82.50 per year is somehow better than paying $43.44 a single time.
     
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  19. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Got to agree. I am allways amazed when I read people actually suggesting that iRacing is a better deal with a better value for money. When are people going to finaly realize that the iRacing system is only worth it as long as a) the sim is supported and b) as long as you pay a sub. When you stop paying the sub, the content that you bought isn't usable anymore. Dave Cameron made a recent video about cost comparison between iRacing and rF2 and it's pretty obvious that he sunk something like over 1000 bucks into iRacing ... easily. I don't want to think about how much I would have sunk into rF2 in the allmost ten years that I used it if the pricing structure was the same.

    rF2 isn't cheap, I think we can all agree on that. But with the recent offerings you get very decent quality and are basicly good to go. You could even start racing on LFM with zero investments for DLC. The Alpines on Zandvoort have been a blast. Sachsenring isn't really my cup of tea, but that's down to the layout and not the quality. And especialy with LFM booming right now it's obvious that the iRacing system is completely obsolete. I mean, who in gods name is really suggesting that it's worth to pump thousend Euro/dollar or what ever into such a systrem? For 93 Euro you get all 2022 packs for rF2, usable to the end you of life. Do we want to make a bet on how much all that content would have cost in iRacing? Anyway, BTCC is the thing in rF2 on LFM right now, for 43 Euro you get everything you need (and can race all the cars) and very well done 3rd mods that are used on top of it in the series. And there is tons of well done stuff now. The sunk costs for iRacing are out of this world in comparison.
     
  20. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    Please, don't make me laugh. iRacing is obsolete? What that $82.50 is buying me, is being able to compete in hourly/bi-hourly events with hundreds of people every time, fully managed. GT3 competitions: Sprint races have 11,578 people race so far this season, Fixed Sprint 14,141 and Ferrari GT3 Fixed at 19,697. Then you've got IMSA: sprints have 4,510 in LMP2 and 9,440 in GT3s in that span of time. And then TCR, you've got 4,106 in sprints open setup and 5,482 in fixed setups. You could have all of that with two or three cars bought. You can't do that with the rF2 CS or LFM. The fact that you have to continually add content to continue to compete makes rF2 expensive, so much so that it almost negates the subscription costs in iRacing. Yes, iRacing is expensive, but you've got the depth of competition/servers it offers, massive special events, managed leagues with minimal costs per race etc. etc. You could spend a lot of money buying every piece of content (cars) iRacing have, but it doesn't have to be that way.
     
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