Dirt/off road

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GDUBMX, Jul 5, 2017.

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  1. GDUBMX

    GDUBMX Registered

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    Has there ever been any developments made toward dirt and off road? I remember seeing a screenshot of off road arizona years ago and that's it. Does studio 397 have plans?
     
  2. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    I won´t hold my breath! lol
     
  3. rocketjockeyr6

    rocketjockeyr6 Registered

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    Would be cool, I greatly enjoyed CORR and co. in rF1.
     
  4. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    Seems like Dirt4 & pCars2 will have this area covered
     
  5. djfil007

    djfil007 Registered

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    https://twitter.com/DjFIL007/status/813847189453606912

    From December 2016 about Dirt/Off-Road in rFactor 2... reply to me from rFactor2 on twitter... "more support is there than was in rf1 for it, but sadly not picked up by community to show interest. Can't say no/never though."
     
  6. rhamm

    rhamm Registered

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    Guimengo likes this.
  7. rocketjockeyr6

    rocketjockeyr6 Registered

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    Dirt4 is worlds ahead of the other Dirt titles, very good feeling... for a game. Hopefully PCars2 will really kill it, videos so far have me excited.
     
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  8. SPONGEZILLA

    SPONGEZILLA Registered

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    If RFactor 2's Real Road surface engine could be updated to be as advanced as what PiBoSo has with World Racing Series (http://www.worldracingseries.net) that would be great. You already have the overall edge in terms of physics with the suspension and tire model at this point, but PiBoSo and iRacing both have the surface model advantage today. Tires = hugely important, as is the physics engine when it comes to suspension... but when the rubber meets the road, not all roads are a rigidly asphalt surface.

    Meshless > Meshed.

    This is where both might potentially have the advantage over what Studio 397 has today.

    The time lapse video below is an example of the World Racing Series Winged Sprint Car on a dirt oval track with simulated surface model deterioration. Over the course of the laps, the surface is rutted from the tires driving over the surface repeatedly. It also goes from a heavy track surface that is harder to negotiate to packed and faster, then gives up grip (moisture leaves the dirt so it gives up grip) by drying out, then becomes more polished off in a surface we term as "slicked-off" (even less grip), and then finally the surface can develop heat from the tires repeatedly turning laps in the same spot causing the tires to melt to the surface. At this point, as physics laws teach us... the coefficient of friction increases, as rubber on rubber = high degrees of friction, which means more grip.



    Video by Mark Zeidler a/k/a Phathry25.

    The above is advantageous to not just dirt oval racing but all forms of rally (point to point rallying as well as rallycross) and off-road racing. Even road racing circuits with grass surfaces where a car runs off can develop ruts. Road circuits with sand/gravel traps where the wheels dig in and lay grooves/ruts as the car drives through.
     
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  9. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    The part I don´t understand in that video is: what is the underground of the dirt-surface?
    In the vid it seems there is tarmac underneath. Is this the case in this dirt ovals?
     
  10. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    Dirt4 is great if you prefer mega-grip in your Simulation mode. I find the RallyX to be pretty good because of the power to weight ratio but, so many of the Rally cars can't spin the tires much less, power out of turns.

    I'd be careful about making recommendations of the title in Sim circles unless CM address some of the underlying issues but, I agree that the overall physics model seems advanced over Dirt Rally although, some of the behavior is really strange unless almost everything in the Rally Stages has very deep ruts that aren't represented visually in the game.

    iRacing is bringing RallyCross and that's something I would love to try, and to have in rF2 or something built from rF2 in the future.

    I think the Dirt aspect of PC2 looks interesting so far but, I'll wait to see how the overall handling stacks up in player reviews before jumping in.

    AMS RallyX can be quite fun but, there isn't enough content there to keep me involved either.
     
  11. rocketjockeyr6

    rocketjockeyr6 Registered

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    Well, I dont own it, I just played about 30 mins worth at demo booth at an electronics department store, a full Fanatec setup.
    IMO, The Pro 2 trucks oversteer like crazy, Pro 4's slide well and manageable, and the 70's Ford Escort had a pretty punchy little motor in it. I did try the RX Pro Fiesta too[HOONiGAN], also very fun.

    And I did mention that it is good, "for a game".
    Also, this was a response to someone else who mentioned Dirt 4, a concurrence of his opinion. Although, like you mentioned of CM's issues, I dont feel that it is worth $60... maybe $30... $40 tops. Still the most fun Ive had with an offroad game using a wheel.

    I have, personally, yet to try AMS, and iracing is too expensive.
     
  12. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    The Buggies, trucks and carts all handle pretty well - a bit tricky with the over-steer using default setups; the RallyX is fun - especially in the more powerful Rx cars but, the perceived grip levels / lack of power in the Rally cars are the main issue IMO. It's extremely difficult to get the rear to step out but, some say it's due to the deep gavel ruts being simulated so well; whatever the case, it makes the Rally Stages incredibly boring to drive and even with extreme car setups, power over-steer is almost non-existent.

    I agree that iRacing is too costly given my schedule limitations. Offline works best for me.
     
  13. SPONGEZILLA

    SPONGEZILLA Registered

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    Dirt ovals work sort of like this:

    When they prep the track, there's 2 different ways they can prep it. They can prep it dryer (goal to get it to go slick) or they can prep it with more moisture. Generally speaking in a real world setting when they use moisture the surface will start off a bit softer and more malleable. They will send what they call pack trucks (basically a bunch of trucks with big tires) out on the track to pack it down and as the trucks turn laps the tires will lay down grooves. They then call the actual race cars out to wheelpack which is a similar process which helps try to use the weight of the car and the cars tires to smooth off or pack the surface down before racing.

    In the above video it's basically the sprint car going around laying down indentions/tire tracks from the tires. The surface is obviously not hard-packed in the video. They can also kick up bits of dirt to the higher line/groove on the track which can lead to it being harder to get some grip up there (it's like marbles on an asphalt/tarmac circuit until packed down/stuck together). The more cars run the bottom groove and less that run the top, sometimes the high groove doesn't come in until later on.

    As it continues to dry out and more laps that are turned on it it continues to pack the surface down further it will develop a ridge around the top that's like a curb that we call a "cushion" that race cars will rub their right rear off of and get grip from, although it can also be treacherous to run up there. The more packed the surface becomes, the more the surface goes from a malleable/flexible surface to a hard-packed surface that actually is more like low grip asphalt as the moisture goes out of the surface. We generally refer to this condition as "slicked off" because the areas where the track is slick have less grip than the areas that still have moisture. It's sort of like racing on ice in some circumstances. Running in the slicked off areas can lead to the cars continuing to spin their tires (wheelspin from lack of grip) as they go around which causes the tires to generate heat (depending on the compound of tires, harder compound tires don't often lay rubber as easily as softer compounds will) and eventually the rubber from the tire comes off onto the surface. Tracks seldom slick off all at once so as the track gives up moisture in different places the racers will continue to move around on the surface trying to hit their marks in areas that they've noticed visually are not as shiny on-track as the rest. Eventually if it's all slick or if enough cars run one singular line where it's slicked off and are turning enough RPM's to get wheelspin they may lay rubber on the track. When a track rubbers, that's the place to be.

    In a real world as the track continues to lay rubber onto the surface, the grip coefficient goes up. Why? Because the laws of physics state that two items of the same material have the greatest coefficient of friction. Tire grip is literally nothing more than friction and the higher grip surface in this scenario is rubber on rubber. This is why when an asphalt track has a rubber strip laid on it, it gains grip vs. a "green" surface. Dirt oval tracks are similar although a tacky track is faster than a slick race track but a rubbered track obviously is faster. That said, a lot of tracks when they rubber up become more one lane and hard to pass on. When a track is slick you can often race multiple grooves all over it and as the track slicks off, you end up hunting for moisture finding a different line that has the grip. You can generally tell this as the areas that slick off are shiny (will reflect overhead lights or the sun) on the dirt surface while the areas that have the moisture are either darker or don't reflect the lighting of the track lights/sun.

    Some track prep people/groomers will mix soap/lye into the water that they use to prep the track which helps keep the surface holding moisture longer or makes the surface a little greasier/more slippery. This can help prevent the track from rubbering for longer as it sort of helps keep the surface moisturized. I've known some track prep crews to use basically the same ingredients you see in dandruff shampoo since they're also designed to maintain or hold moisture (and prevent flaking). Other times partway through a program they'll send a track prep crew out to rework the surface if they feel the track is going away. Heavy equipment like a sheep's foot that punches holes in the surface to get more moisture to the top (also makes the surface less solid across which can help cut down on some of the surface area/grip) or a box scraper or other farming tools to turn up the surface to repack it are used.
     
  14. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    Thanks for that insight Spongezilla, although it didn´t answered my question...:D
     
  15. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Iracing is behind rf2 when it comes to the tyre and surface model,dirt is a joke,the slick shorter line is faster than the tacky middle and high line,in iracing dirt ovals.
    It's a very simplistic model to say the least with some very galaring faults,which will still be here in 5 yrs time.
    Both road and dirt racing on iracing is as astatic as they come,just like their random static weather,there's nothing dynamic about it.
    Rf2 has many faults but it is ahead in the physics department
     

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