Did anyone already try updating their mod to latest tire CPM?

Discussion in 'Modding' started by avenger82, Jan 19, 2018.

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  1. dbaldi

    dbaldi Registered

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    I agree with that, if a car includes all their possibilities and detailed characteristics, you would need three engineers working with you to setup the car for a single race.

    So the idea is to brought the sensations and challenge of the recreated car, but into a narrow margin of possibilities to make it possible to drive and setup.
     
  2. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    @davehenrie
    Fair enough. From what I've read recently, tires are notoriously hard to simulate. Even if tire manufacturer provides accurate data, measured at various loads (which is often not the case) it seems extremely difficult to "get it right" and is kind of black art:). Especially considering all different conditions, like "green" vs rubbered vs wet track, dirt, spilled oil etc. (plus all combinations of important settings like pressure, camber etc).

    I think the easiest way to evaluate tire model is to test empirically car's behavior when racing over the limit. Whether losing and regaining traction feel natural. I mean if it's extremely hard to power-slide a car or counter an oversteer in a sim vs in reality (as it used to be the case for "hardcore" sims like AC and iRacing), then something is definitely wrong with tire model.

    Nevertheless, sims are getting closer and maybe by 2028 years the best ones will have realistic tire model without much simplification/fudging:)


    I think Ian Bell from SMS would beg to differ and explain why it's SETA tire model is state of the art - just kidding it's not like he's oversensitive about his product.:)
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  3. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    But seriously, I always thought that rF2 was striving to have as little simplifications as possible, which is not necessarily the case for rF1 derived sims like AMS or R3R (despite that they still feel quite realistic ).
    I mean if rFactor's (or actually rFactor Pro) old gMotor, was used by real racing teams to test their setups, then I would expect rF2 physics model wouldn't be regression in this area(rather the opposite).
    I understand there are still many simplifications - even arguably the most advanced tire models(i.e. CPM in rF2) have some compromises (good example is QSA model which was regarded as good enough for 5 years).
    However, I thought that changing relatively simple things, like using different tires, should automatically result in the similar behavior as IRL and wouldn't require "manual" fudging.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  4. Jokeri

    Jokeri Registered

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    @dbaldi
    I didnt see any difference in the contact patch size with the new setting set to 1 or 0. I must be doing something wrong.
    I ran the tests with 5500N load and 400rad/s. Do you see changes in your tire?
     
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  5. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
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  6. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    It's been while, so are the any updates? Did S397 did anyone done testing new tire CPM? Maybe S397 released examples of tires with new CPM for modders?
     
  7. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    its hard to compare the tyre models, unless you have identical car with bot models available.
     
  8. dbaldi

    dbaldi Registered

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    I made a set of tires for a small formula car and I included the new variable, but the car is still in progress to comment about it.
     
  9. dbaldi

    dbaldi Registered

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    I have run a tire at ttool again, with the only change being the add of the variable CalcPointAccel=0.5

    What's going on? I did miss something? We have to wait for any difference at the lookup?. Old and new tire files are exactly the same. Eleven hours of CPU usage for nothing. I'm considering to forget about mods and start with bitcoins. RF2 modding isn't friendly with the evironment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  10. D.Painter

    D.Painter Registered

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    Well look at the bright side. With modding you loose time and maybe your patience at times but it's better then loosing your house, wife, kids and living on the streets like you could with bitcoin.
     
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  11. Jokeri

    Jokeri Registered

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    I'm more inclined towards that the new parameter isnt yet enabled in the current public build..
     
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  12. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Yeah it's possible tools are not released with current build unfortunately. This is you can also imply from Enduracers team response:
    "...version 2 of CPM tires, they are not yet available for modders.We will update the mod to this new version once it's released to us."
    Previously they adapted CPM tires from S397 so maybe they meant easy to use pre-compiled tires.
     
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  13. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Tyre database has been published in Developers Guide:
    "The eagerly awaited tyre database is now available for modders to use as a basis for your own tyres. This will be a current (up-to-date) list of tyres that we have generated for various public and private (where possible) projects"...

    https://docs.studio-397.com/developers-guide/cars/car-physics/tyre-database

    What's relevant:
    "The list only includes tyres that are updated with the latest technologies, that includes what has been basically refer to as the 'CPM v2' model (with localised patch accelerations, briefly outlined in a blog)
     
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  14. Jokeri

    Jokeri Registered

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    Now this setting seems to have an effect in ttool
     
  15. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Good to know. I was expecting that with new build released also some official cars would have tires updated to CPM.
     
  16. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    there may be on-going tire development for individual cars, but I think we have seen the focus of S397 to be more on recently released cars. Especially the ISI cars from rF2's beginnings, those may never see updated tires...or at least it will be a long time.
     
  17. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    S397 made yet another refinement of tires CPM :
    https://www.studio-397.com/2018/06/endurance-pack/

    "Our close collaboration with teams and manufacturers have given us even more detailed insight into the tyres that they are running on these cars. On top of that, our laser scanned version of Sebring gave us an excellent opportunity to compare data to a 100% accurate track. The data prompted us to make some updates to our model"

    Hopefully they will provide them in tire examples database for modders to adapt.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  18. MaD_King

    MaD_King Registered

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    Yes, we wait for it :)
     
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  19. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    That's great, especially that you already have CPM 2 tires (which where released not long ago and AFAIK aren't available in examples database yet?) .
    BTW: Is it true that S397 helped a lot in your latest release to improve physics according to latest guidelines and recommendations?
     
  20. Jokeri

    Jokeri Registered

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    What are the latest guidelines and recommendations?
     

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