Dev Mode AIW Editor Suggestion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by hamiltonfan2205, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. hamiltonfan2205

    hamiltonfan2205 Registered

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    I have a suggestion.

    When I record the AI fast line when there is an issue at just 1 corner, I do find it really irritating how I have to record the whole track to perfect just 1 corner, and possibly create new glitches at another corner. So IMO it should be possible to record a section of a fast line, rather than you having to record the whole track to perfect 1 corner...
     
  2. hexagramme

    hexagramme Member

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    There is a very nice and easy solution to this problem.
    You simply record a new path, what I like to call a "patch path", where you focus on problem corners, and then copy that new part unto the original fast path.

    So:
    You have your fast path, with the one corner that you aren't satisfied with.
    You then select "name new path", call the new path whatever you like, for example "patchpath". Doesn't really matter.
    You then record and drive the lap, but this time the only thing that matter is nailing that one corner.
    Finish the lap, save, exit and reload the track.

    Now you go into the path sub menu, select your original fast path as "path (w)" and the new patch path as "path 2 (g)".
    You will now see the two paths overlaid together, w being white and g being green.

    Next, you go to the problem corner and select the all the main waypoints covering that corner.
    It's a good idea to start marking waypoints from a point where the two paths are right on top of each other, otherwise you'll get a nasty kink a la the one you typically get on the finish line.
    When marking the last waypoint the same thing applies, pick a spot where the two paths are right on top of each other.
    A good idea is to make the beginning and the end waypoint selection on a straight piece of track before and after the corner in question.
    Manually smoothing paths in corners can be a huge PITA.

    With all those WPs selected you should now see the "selected waypoint menu" (rF2 switches to this menu as soon as you have one or more waypoints selected).
    Open the "manipulations" sub menu and click "copy path 2 (g) onto path 1 (w)".
    You then see the the change where the paths have merged together.
    Deselect all waypoints.

    The last thing to do is to look for any kinks at the beginning and the end of the part of the path.
    Also observe the AI driving past those points, that'll make it obvious if it needs any further smoothing.

    Let me know if it works for you, and of course if you have any questions. :)
     
  3. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    Well I find irritating the whole system and that AI learning should be more developed than what it is. From rF1 the complexity has grown. Before you only had to define one path. Now we can easily have 4. What works with one type of car doesn't work that good with another.

    The behaviour of a specific combo depends on how the respective modders have treated the AI part of each component. The result is what we have now: AI is too slow in many combos. In many cases one single turn can ruin the whole AIW. The general exception to the rule is ISI track/car combos where everything regarding the tuning lays on the same side.

    Having to define fast paths and blocking paths for different cars is artificial. An algorithm should be developed to define automatic fast path regions instead of lines taking into account track limits and car characteristics regarding entry turn entry and exit behaviour. This part of the job should not be modder dependant IMO

    That theoretical wide path should later be polished by trial and error learning algorithms to match a specific car during the practice session. Some cars take curbs better than others so the fine adjustment It can depend on many things.

    It would be similar to the actual AI learning mode but in a more natural way. It would also be something much closer to what humans do the first time thay get on a track and how they later adapt their driving to the different conditions:

    - blocking or preparing an overtaking
    - track grip changing conditions including rain, temperature...
    - avoiding collision with a car debris




    Enviado desde mi ONE A2001 mediante Tapatalk
     
  4. hexagramme

    hexagramme Member

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    Some very nice ideas, and also some pretty complex stuff. Hopefully something we will see in the future, more organic and more automated.

    I must say however that I find that the current aiw editor is pretty flexible and offers solutions, as well as pretty fail safe work arounds to most ai problems you're likely to run across. For now it's more than possible, for those with the proper knowhow, to create the best ai experience of any platform. That's not to say things can't be improved, but for me at least I find the editor to be a nice and effective tool to work with.
     
  5. pitkin

    pitkin Registered

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    Would be nice if the old AIW+Cam editor still worked with RF2 for tweaking the lines. I found using that tool pretty easy for fine tuning things. Hopefully it will be updated for RF2 one day.
     
  6. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    +1

    The current model has too many limitations and permutations. Just start over with a system that will work for all mods and all tracks. The basic results can be encoded into the track files, but new car mods will always need special attention, so no way to ever lock-down a track's AIW with the current system. That supplemental stuff can get looked after as part of the on-the-fly "learning" mode.
     
  7. hexagramme

    hexagramme Member

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    What kind of tweaks does the old editor offer that the rF2 editor doesn't?
    I'm curious, I wasn't really around in the rF1 days.

    The "just" seems a bit out of place in this context. ;)
     
  8. hamiltonfan2205

    hamiltonfan2205 Registered

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  9. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    It means put time and energy into a system that has a hope of working systematically for all cars and tracks in the future, not into one that gets worse as it tries to add layers of complexity to deal with the characteristics of different cars. Track modding is already difficult enough and we only have really good AIW on a small minority of tracks. Do we want that to be even smaller in the future? I hope ISI is already working on figuring out how to utilize the AI Learning in a more sophisticated, automatic manner so that only a basic AIW is needed in the track itself and the "system" will adapt as needed to real-world (meaning the car you choose to use on the track you choose to use) conditions. It just has to be good enough at the outset to not be off-putting while one waits for the learning to kick in.
     
  10. pitkin

    pitkin Registered

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    It's a 3rd party program that loads in an .AIW and shows the track outline from a top down view. Individual waypoints can be moved, fast path, grid and garage spots can be tweaked. Corridors can be edited too.
    It's nice because you can just click on a waypoint and fine tune an AIW by changing a few numbers.

    It does sort of work with RF2 AIW files, they can be loaded and a few things can be adjusted, but obviously rf2's newer features such as block path are not recognised, and the fast path doesn't seem to show properly.

    It's been around since the F1 Challenge days and proved quite useful over the years.
     
  11. woochoo

    woochoo Registered

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    [slightly-OT] It also loads the cam files, which in the past has made it easy for me to visualise things like cam positions and activation distances and then copy-paste values into the rF2 cam file. It could be useful for people working on rF2 cam files (though probably not appropriate for fully authoring them) :)
    https://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=AIW%20CAM%20Editor
    the UI is pretty hard-core :D
     
  12. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Something along the lines of Bink's AIW Thing combined with both types of AI Learning. Yes, I could see that as really helpful.
     

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