WIP Dallara IR18 AI are so slow at Indy because the default setup is awful

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Barnesf1, May 25, 2022.

  1. Barnesf1

    Barnesf1 Registered

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    I'm really surprised that 397 put such a terrible default setup for the AI at Indy. They can't even do 200mph through the corners because the rear wing default is -7. The AI just push like crazy and have to get way off the throttle to get through the corners. Yea, I can force the AI to use my setup and then they run nose to tail for 200 laps and that sucks too.

    Plus, I see the Dallara in real life at Indy doing 242mph into the corners and exit doing over 230mph. Why doesn't my Dallara IR18 do that? With minimum wing settings you can't even get through the corners flat out without a major push into the wall. Maybe I don't know what I'm doing when it comes to a setup but a default Indy 500 setup should be able run flat out around the track.
     
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  2. Pales

    Pales Registered

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    Sadly. the erratic throttle and breaking issue introduced in Build: 1110 (2018) caused all sorts of issues, particularly in corners. Very little testing is done on the AI side these days. The AIW lines are consistently poor, and always require alterations by community members. Most DLC cars for the AI are not balanced at all, they're just configured in a way where they if they stay on the track, it is a pass from the devs.

    You should probably look at the history of the official GT3 AMD that Studio 397 released. For the first year or so, it could barely keep itself on the track and would regularly spin in most corners. It took well over a year or so for that to be rectified, and even now it's not perfect.

    Basically, do not expect much. The lack of attention in this area has been the case for well over 5 years.
     
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  3. Chris Hill

    Chris Hill Registered

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    The danger with this is, the Indycar game will be made using the same physics and AI.
    If these AI issues are not addressed by the time the game is released (if it ever does) then its going to be NASCAR Ignition all over again
     
  4. Coutie

    Coutie Moderator Staff Member

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    There was an issue with them not using the right upgrade, we have it fixed, hopefully it will be released soon.
     
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  5. DiggerHawk

    DiggerHawk Registered

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    Before the Indy 500?

    What about the anti-roll bars not being sequential and P2P being available on ovals when it shouldn't? Also where are Power, Sato and Johnson's cars? It is also rather annoying to have to keep booting out the no name driver car rom the race. There is also the issue of not being able to use the last 30 seconds of P2P.
     
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  6. Coutie

    Coutie Moderator Staff Member

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    ARB's are sequential, but it just switches between the sizes. Other cars, I don't know, I'm sure there are reasons why. No name car is a game bug I think. P2P would get fixed with the upgrade fix. I don't know when the release will be.
     
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  7. Bill Worrel

    Bill Worrel Registered

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    I think the no name car is the show car.
     
  8. DiggerHawk

    DiggerHawk Registered

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    Thank you for clearing up the ARB issue for us. Would it be a good idea to adjust their labels to make it clearer as it can be a bit confusing. I noticed some other cars already do this, where if the component is changed not just its setting it would be identified as it being different.
     
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  9. DiggerHawk

    DiggerHawk Registered

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    Yeah you are correct, but it doesn't need to be there.

    Unfortunately the IR-18 was sold to us as having all the liveries and drivers from the 2021 season. Instead it was just those that participated in the Virtual IndyCar series before this season started. Which meant some of the liveries are from the 2022 season to avoid some of the drivers being in the wrong team, which in it self is a positive. But all the 2022 drivers and liveries would be good, maybe something for the skin creators out there to think about.
     
  10. Bill Worrel

    Bill Worrel Registered

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    Many liveries in IndyCar are changed at nearly every race, so I think we'll have to rely on those that enjoy painting to keep up with them.
     
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  11. DiggerHawk

    DiggerHawk Registered

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    Maybe just pick the best livery for each driver. That's only 33 if you go with the Indy 500 grid, someone may be able to do it before the 2023 season starts. Then I would like the 2023 liveries as well!
     
  12. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Have you been seeing tweets from Indy by the rF2 crew? They have simulators up with rF2 but one of the prizes is an early access to the Indycar game. MSG is still hard at work on an Indycar game. That development will probably limit how much rF2 can get.
     
  13. pety100

    pety100 Registered

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    First I didn't understand as I stiffened the ARBs I got values like 45-70-120 then it started again from a lower value. I was so confused, but now you tell that it switches the size and thats why is it so.

    But guys, can someone explain me the ARBs size how affects the car? I understand what is happening when I stiffen or soften the ARBs, but what is this size attribute? For example which is the stiffer ARB at front? Size 1 - value: 100N/mm OR Size 2 - 80 N/mm?
     
  14. ThomasJohansen

    ThomasJohansen Registered

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    I think there are 2022 skins here:
    https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/2022-21-ntt-indycar-series.51450/

    But creating skins aren't something that just happens, it takes minimum 4 to 8 hours per skin/car, so maybe its time to give the guy a cop of coffee if you like what he made...
     
  15. lordpantsington

    lordpantsington Registered

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    I don't have an IR18 Technical manual, but looking through material for Dallara F320, there are multiple ARB config, each with multiple options, and each option has multiple settings (1-1 to 5-5):
    U shaped, Long blades
    Ø30mm- 3mm body, Ø18mm solid, Ø15mm solid
    U-Shaped, Medium
    Ø30mm- 3mm body, Ø18mm solid, Ø15mm solid
    U-Shaped, Short
    Ø30mm- 3mm body, Ø18mm solid, Ø15mm solid
    T-Shaped, Wide
    T-Shaped, Narrow

    Each config changes Motion ratio, and each option has different stiffness at each setting. When the stiffness option in the garage jumps back to a lower stiffness, it likely would be from a config. option, or setting change.

    Example:
    The Ø15mm solid, Long Blade, ranges from 7.3 to 25.7 [kgf/mm], but the stiffness (@ ground) for each setting is: 7.3, 7.7, 8.8,11.4, 8.2, 9.5, 11.4, 12.5, 11.4, 14.2, 16, 18.8, 22, and 25.7
    Jumping to a different config, (Ø18mm solid): 7.9, 8.3, 9.7, 11.6, 12.8, 8.9, 10.5, 12.8, 14.3, 12.8, 16.5, 19, 23.1, 28.2, 34.6 [kgf/mm]

    So generally for the F320, higher setting number, higher stiffness. Larger Ø bar, higher stiffness. Shorter Blade, higher stiffness.
    For the T bars, Narrow fixing was stiffer. 0° was softest, and 90° was stiffest.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
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  16. DiggerHawk

    DiggerHawk Registered

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    Thank you providing the link to some IndyCar skins, I will take a look.

    I am fully aware of how long it takes to make a skin as I have created a few myself for the CART Factor update, not as long as creating skins, Ambient Occlusion maps and rain maps on top of the 3d modelling but still a lot of effort and time. If I remember correctly I think my comments were mostly sarcastic and not to be taken seriously.
     

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