Curved screens DIY

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 1959nikos, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. modmate

    modmate Registered

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    Hey,

    The projector he uses is a Optoma HD800X-LV 1080p projector @ 1920x1080x32 .
    The screen size is 145x122cm and is made of wood.
    Imgaesize though was 145x81.5cm (16:9). I remember he tried many but that was the best.

    The distance i dont know but got a pic here :

    View attachment 3733

    He got a thread running about this build but i cant remember where. Just took all details and pics together cause i want to build such on my simcockpit.

    I just want this:

    View attachment 3734

    Its so "easy" and we all need to thank remco hitman(nils) for this idea.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2012
  2. martymoose

    martymoose Registered

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    That looks pretty good he should do a pretty basic mod and block out the projection over his wheel, a bit of cardboard behind him cut to shape would do the trick. I do really like realistic FOV settings in sims and cant understand how some people can drive with such high FOV's that a hairpin looks like a flatout kink.

    If only you could get a very high res projector would that get better, even my 55inch 1080p tv from about a meter away gets a little pixely and the same res much bigger will get a little fuzzy from that close.
     
  3. modmate

    modmate Registered

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    Honestly in that video you see the wood covered with sheets of paper for a testrun like i remember so if its painted properly it would look way better.
     
  4. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    I wonder if that could be so that image is projected behind the screen material, that way you would get dials etc showing properly without hands and wheel making shadows, but space requirements might be bit more.

    2m image width viewed from 1m distance was really impressive, I guess that 1.4m image viewed that close must be matching 2.8-3m wide if viewed from 1m distance. I think that one might get close to 180 degrees (160-170, what would be max to get brightness equal over whole screen?) with two projectors if curved screen would be placed that close and image projected from behind, saving one projector would help bringing down the costs.
     
  5. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    Very nice idea and very emmersive,ended but I think that with this setup you should change the distance and the high/angle of the projector every time you change car to get a perfect fov like in the video .
     
  6. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Now I am going to have to do some thinking on that one, hehe.

    I don't really care for the over the shoulder projector or over the head as is this case due to shadow, but someone already suggested a cardboard cutout behind you to block that portion of the display. This idea is not elegant, but would do. I am thinking more in the lines of jtbo with rear projection and at least 2 projectors to allow for the 180 degree FOV or more. The advantage of rear projection would be that nothing would block the area of your dash/cockpit so you would be able to see anything that was displayed. The only other thing that would need to be done would be to enclose your pedal area so no light was able to show in through that direction into your face.

    From what was shown on that video too, getting in and out of the seat would be a bit of a pain unless you made long tracks for the seat to slide on. The advantage of a setup like that would be that you could have your computer at a desk with a regular monitor and switch to projector when you wanted to put some seat time in and you would still be able to sit at a desk when using your computer :)
     
  7. modmate

    modmate Registered

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    Hey,

    Honestly nils tried a ton of different angles, distances and views also the projection from the back but that will end up in shadows also. The screen is 40mm distance to the wheel and from the back you`ll see the wheelbase shadow at least.
    If you go for a curve screen you`ll get problems with superFOV he written somewhere.
    He is a well known driver and i guess he get the best results that way.

    You are always positioned in line with the steering axle because that's how most games and mods are designed therefore i dont think you`ll need big adjustement each time.

    Now I am going to have to do some thinking on that one, hehe.

    The cardboard is an idea but you`ll loose all iinstruments show up behind the wheel.
    and i need to say that he is still in WIP.

    At least here is apic show his arm "dressed up" by iracing. Thats really Impressive isnt it?:

    View attachment 3737

    Edit:

    Found something he post about getting the right FOV:

    Also more about the screen-projector distance:

    Well, all you need defo to look for is that your projector is a shortthrow one.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2012
  8. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    The problem with this sort of thing is the resolution is terrible even with a 1080p projector It will effectively simulate what its like to have bad eyesight and if you race allot will probably make your eyes tired.

    This looks allot better in images or video than it does for the actual user ( due to the cameras distance from the screen).

    However I think in principle its an amazing idea especially if done using a rear projector and with 3D. It will just need to be with a 4K rez image minimum.


    That's based on my personal experiences trying it with both a 1080p and 800x600 projector ( I didn't have a chance to try it on a rear projector screen though)
     
  9. martymoose

    martymoose Registered

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    Resolution is the main reason a single projector just isnt good enough like james said. It would look great from a few meters away but in the seat the lack of detail ruins the experiance IMHO. Like I said my 1080p 55 inch hdtv at about 1m away is just good enough, Id love more but the same res any bigger isnt great.

    3 projectors have the advantage of more res 5760x1080 if over a 3m area this would be close to what a large hdtv will give you. 2 projectors would be better then 1 but not ideal as the join will never be perfect so you dont want the join in the middle of your vision. A single 4k projector would be much better on that single projector setup.
     
  10. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    That is interesting about shadows with back projection, does he have web page or has he posted stuff on German forums? I would like to learn more about his experiments, so that it would be easier to form full picture of what to do and what not to do.

    That is nice how arms in game matches his arms, there really is only issue with dials when hand moves over them, imo.

    I found out that projector near ceiling was best, when I had my experiments, because I had projector further back I got shadow of my head to steering wheel, but it really did not bothered me much.

    What comes to resolution, I don't know about rest of you, but at least for me things moving fast are looking blurred anyway, however I found out that AA has actually some use with projector image, haven't found use for it on monitors, except for screenshots.
    So resolution never really has bothered me, but then again I still can enjoy from AGS games too, maybe growing with games less than vga resolution has permanently damaged something ;)
     
  11. GTrFreak

    GTrFreak Registered

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    I have seen that video earlier and when I look at it it's so easy to make. Just some handyman skills, some measurements and the gear itself are needed. I know it's not top quality but for me, this is better then playing with 1 24" monitor just behind the G25 housing. When you have a bigger screen just behind the wheel the FOV can be correct without losing so much environmental awareness. Money has always been something I need to pay (hehe) attention to so this might be the most BANG for your buck, immersion wise.Also space is something I don't have for a setup like that but maybe in the near future.

    I just want to ask something. I understand 1080p on a screen of something like 1,50x0,85m is not enough to get a crisp image but when you guys say you need a 4k resolution, doesn't that mean that the output resolution of the computer has to be 4k too? That isn't even supported, right? Don't see 4k with AA, HDR and everything happening honestly. Can anybody explain this?
     
  12. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Why not? If you have enough powerful GPU or several?
    2560 x 1600 is resolution of single Dell 30" monitor, put three those and you have three times of that and it is more than 4k already, so why not with three HD projectors?
     
  13. GTrFreak

    GTrFreak Registered

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    I thought that wasn't as easy as just set the resolution up to 4k resolution. my bad :rolleyes:
     
  14. modmate

    modmate Registered

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    Well, again, it wont work if you project from the rear to the screen unless you go to extend your steering wheel axle alot!
    and its looking BETTER in reallife not on pictures or videos, thats obvious mate.He do also say his camera isnt that good and catches some colors false.Also, since he uses a mdf board with sheets of white paper it will look way more "crisp" in the final version.


    Ive tried something similar just to see how it looks, and with all the distances and the mathematical correct FOV it looks really great. I use a ACER H6500 wich is a shortthrow projector and in my trial setup i need to use 16-32 AA, but its looking great then.
    I post some pics if i got all setup in some weeks, in my new appartement there is enough space to get it done.
     
  15. elbo

    elbo Registered

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    Here is my take on the whole curve screen thing.

    I made my rig (and obviously from the rather shabby look of it you can see it is DIY) inspired from rear projection projects like the jDome or the FREX canopy. What I did not like about those ideas was the constant curved surface which essentially means that only a very small part of the screen is in perfect focus since every point curves away from the projector.


    What I decided to do was make a 70cm high by 125cm wide srceen (once curved) with a flat area at the front (see top down view below)
    View attachment 3743

    This had 2 benefits; It gave me an area perfectly in focus in the center (which is where you look most of the time) and it reduced the focal depth to the outer edges making the out of focus projection out there much less noticeable.

    My screen is mounted on a desk that sits about an inch above the desk that the G27 is bolted to so that vibrations of the wheel do not move the projection screen. Since the projection is from the rear, I do not throw any shadows on the screen.

    The distortion is taken care of by Nthusim software, the projected grid can be seen in the picture below...the software readjusts the screen along a grid pattern allowing for much reduced distortion along the curved parts of the screen. Transition from the flat to the curved area is really smooth and distortions are minimal.
    View attachment 3744

    The overall effect is quite good, when driving my head is roughly 1 metre from the flat area of the screen and the outer edges are about 20cm in front of me in my peripheral vision. Though this peripheral area is slightly out of focus it is not a problem since it is by definition in an area of your field of vision which is not in focus anyway...the sense of speed is greatly enhanced. Obviously you could go the 3 projector route, and nthusim has edge-blending technology for this, but the cost to me was a little high.

    I tried to take a panoramic pic with my cheap sony camera from where I drive but it is difficult to transmit the effect by photo. You can see where the curve surface of the plexiglass begins in the pic by the vertical lines (the colour is a little more grey where the camera picks up the plexiglass but in real life this effect is hardly noticeable.)
    View attachment 3745

    Cost (in canadian dollars, more or less equal to USD)
    1/8 inch plexiglass sheet : 90$
    rear projection screen material : 160$
    nthusim software : 280$

    Of course to this you have to add the cost of the projector...

    Another little ditty that I have is an Ivibe seat. It is one of the greatest low cost additions you can make to a simming rig. Their website is at ivibe.com if you want more info.

    If anyone wants to try this and needs info let me know.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2012
  16. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    Please do, Ive heard the best for Acer H6500. The price is right too.
    Since it has 2k resolution, getting 2 of them will get you up to 4k res, and if 3 of them, gets you up to 6k, which is more than enough.

    I was thinking of buing one for starters and move later to more.

    My project is a half cylindrical screen, with radius 1m.
    That means if I use single projector, this must cover 2m width.
    If I translate throw distance the right way, which for h6500 is 1.2:1, projector must be placed 2,4m away of center of semi cylinder.

    So far all is ok, I have the space for that, problem is that the center part of the screen will be further by 1m.
    What about focusing?
    Warping the image with proper software is possible, but will it be focused?
     
  17. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    Hi elbo,

    you used clear plexiglass?
    what is the screen material and at which side you apply it?
    whats the projector and distance from screen?
    did you like the nthusim software?
    is it the one for single processor?

    Good job it looks, is this photo with ambient light or in darkness?
     
  18. elbo

    elbo Registered

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    Hi Nikos,
    Yes I used clear plexiglass by Lexan (sorry I said 1/8 inch but it is in fact 1/16 inch thick)
    The projection material is applied to the projector side (so away from you when you drive).
    Found it here; http://www.amazon.com/ProScreens-REAR-Projection-Screen-Material/dp/B004MNZDSU
    The projector is an Optoma HD20. I never measured the distance but I would say about 2 or 2.5m away.
    The nthusim software is the one for single projectors, it is very good, and does not have an FPS cost as far as I can see. The latest version (3.1) gave me a buggy mouse cursor but the 3.0 version works perfectly.

    regards,
    elbo
     
  19. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    As clear plexiglass can be sand blasted from one side, I wondered if this could do the trick.
    Also, if front projection is used, I could buy me a prepainted white plexiglass, but I wonder about peflections, I dont understand if this is good or bad.
    Optoma HD20 is my second choise, do you see focusing differences from sides to center?
    Possible to get a photo at your screen in complete darkness while in game?

    Cheers, nikos
     
  20. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Looking at that bottom image you posted elbo, it looks at though things could be done just a little differently to get a better effect. I can see in the image that the lines at the side of the track as well as the wall are not straight looking. That is going to be the hardest thing to get right when using multiple monitors or projectors I believe. Also, with rear projection, does the image need to be adjusted somehow or does the projector adjust for being a rear projection? In other words, does the projector mirror the image if you are using it for rear projection?
     

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