Curved screens DIY

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 1959nikos, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    Nthusim's opperation looks pretty straight forward and seems essential for such a project

    http://nthusim.com/wiki/single-head-warping-tutorial

    but it seems there is a lot to search for appropriate projector lense for such a screen, depending on radius of curvature and available distance in your space from screen, to have projector placed at best position for a good result.

    There are a lot of good forums around for stuff like that, Ill probably join some and Ill post conclusions here as soon as Ill have them.

    It seems I just got started, but thanks to all for your input, it really got me started in the right direction!!!

    P.S. kind forum modderators, please feel free to take this thread to appropriate subforum.
     
  2. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    The thing is you have to way up allot of things

    projectors have lots issues ( Bulb life , Heat, fan noise , Pore image quality at larger sizes, pore contrast , difficult to configure , annoying to align , external software to warp image that crashes / has issues with OS or graphics updates)

    In terms of a practical solution that fits in a home and will work 100% reliably and lets you focus on the racing rather than the set-up of the screen, I don't think anything beats 3x 42-52" LCD /LED screens placed close to the driver or configured properly in a rig.

    The quality of image from LED tv at the lower price points is going to be MASSIVELY better than that of a projector , and to get a good image from a projector not only do you need a decent projector + dark room you also need a good quality screen which will set you back between $400-$1500

    Unless you can do the curved projector screen properly (like the red bull simulator) then I think tv screens are the better solution.

    For $5k you can have a top of the line TV simulator where as to do something that's not got issues ( granted you do get a bezel but when you are racing you don't notice it).

    With projectors I would budget around $9-15k to get something that's reliable but even then you will likely have software issues.

    I'm not saying a projector setup cannot work on the cheep I just think when you evaluate things the issues that arive from projectors out way the benefits of a curved seamless screen.

    Another point with curved screens is that unless you use special lenses you find that parts of the image will be less in focus than others , the amount of focus difference when not using special lenses depends on the amount of curvature and distance from the projector.

    From a subjective view point of view , having myself used LCD screens allot , for me whenever looking at a projected screen especaily when closely as you would be in one of these set-ups the lack of focus / pin point clarity annoys me.

    The only way to get around the lack of pint point clarity with projectors is to have a higher resolution projector or/and sit the user further back. This is why in top end simulators you tend to see a HUGE screen with the user sat quite far back , rather than simply using a smaller screen that covers the users FOV.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2012
  3. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    I don't know about issues of projectors, I have had single projector setup and that was cheapest DLP projector that there was, bulb life is around 2000 hours, which is quite a lot of sim driving, also you can get new bulbs for them, but before buying projector it is worth to check price of bulbs and also how much of pain replacing it is.

    Image size however adds so much immersion that even with that 800x600 native resolution 2 meters wide image was my choice, it had poor contrast and quality of image was not great, with good projector those would not been so much an issue, but that immersion of big image certainly did overcome those other issues.

    I would still use it but after a move I have had no space for such setup. To have 2 meters wide image you need some distance already and good thing with distance is that fan noise is not so bad, poor thing is that you need more light from projector or darker room.

    Sensation what comes when you have to turn your head to see apex is however something I really did like.

    Currently I use single 27" monitor, feels like there would be a lot missing.
     
  4. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    I have used a couple of projectors and sure the feeling you get from a large screen is really good but after a couple of months of using it the impact becomes less and less and the annoyance from lack of resolution , lack of focus, lack of contrast becomes more and more.

    I found the resolution on even a 1080p projector to be lacking when you make the image over 2m wide and sit close to it as you do in a driving simulator.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2012
  5. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Sure resolution is not very good, but when I drive fast, I don't really notice such, staring pretty images LCD monitor is better, but when one drives really really fast, tiny things really are impossible spot, like tearing, no AA, resolution etc, I won't even notice such, if I would, then I would not be driving fast enough.

    But when I go slow, I see ghosting with this 27" monitor of mine, looks similar if you use way too much sharpen filter, now with projector that can be annoying too for some as every small thing is lot bigger with projector.

    If projector uses LCD technology it too can have ghosting.

    With monitor some complain how it is difficult to set them so that colors would look same with them all, but that too is just when looking pretty pictures.

    One thing where three monitors are really great is modding, I had 19" LCD with this 27" LCD and it broke so I'm back to single monitor and it really is a pain when you have lot of documents open like when doing car physics, 3 screens would be lot better than projector setup for such job too.

    One has to think what he does and what he needs indeed, I would consider projector only for racing, certainly not good for modding.
     
  6. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    With screens especially larger or tv screens its important to make sure they have low latency and don't ghost allot of screens ment for tv suffer from bad latency due to all the crappy processing they try to put in them. The same applies to allot of projectors as well even though DLP as a technology allows for near to no latency.

    27" is to small same with my 42" screen really you want 3x 42" or 3x 47" minimum.

    The nice thing with even a single 42" screen is that at 1m from the eyes 1080p resolution is high enough that you cannot see pixels. You can also set a game up at 60 or so FOV , have your real wheel match up with where the in game wheel would be almost 1-1 at a real world scale and still see enough of the cockpit to have situational awareness.

    then by adding two side screens you simply add in a more natural amount of peripheral vision even though you will not really look or turn head to these screens when driving .

    Sure you would only ever use the projector for racing even with that in mind the resolution can still be an issue. Unless you are in a large room with very good quality projectors on a very good quality screen that's quite some distance from the user.

    The lack of resolution with projectors is very distracting to me as when you are driving on the limmit you tend to focus more on specific points, if those points are out of focus with aliasing then it can be very distracting to drive.

    The larger the screen the lower the pixel density is getting and the worse quality those specific focus points get.

    I don't disagree that a curved large screen with projectors is the ultimate solution but you have to do it in a very specific way for it to work and at a huge cost jump compared to what is achieved with three good quality HD tvs.

    You should not really be moving you head around in faster spec cars normally drivers are mostly moving eyes left and right rather than rotating the head much , even when I have run 3x22" screens set close to my eyes I would not move head at all.



    But sure in the end allot of it comes down to whatever is fun for you :)
     
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  7. martymoose

    martymoose Registered

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    I use a single 55 inch Panasonic Plasma, never much liked LCD screens. 3 would be nice but need a bigger room for the computer then lol, its all personal preference and I think someone will come out with a clever curved OLED screen within the next few years as these become mainstream.

    The issues most have with colour and 3 LCD's is off angle viewing of LCD's have a pretty big colour shift even in the best screens and the 2 side screens will never look quite the same as the middle due to this. But as has been said you wouldn't notice anyway when driving at speed, the 3 screens whatever format LCD, Plasma or projectors is great seeing apex of sharper corners easier and also other cars trying to pass which end up in a blind spot on a single screen unless using very high FOV which I dont like.

    My solution to that issue is try and go fast enough that nobody can sneak in there lol. I do have track IR but my hat clip is not working properly any more some of the reflective material must have scratched off so I will have to look on ebay for another and that may help me see the aliens sneaking in on the inside.

    The curved screen idea looks great and Id love to get it but as some others have said lack of focus and resolution is an issue for me. I have only gamed infornt of a large projector screen once, this was only 720P I think and I found it hard looking into the distance due to lack of res and focus.

    Ideally Id like a 4K monitor or tv at 50-55 inches in 3D x 3 thats not going to happen in a while but curved and flexible screens will be here in the next few years so this may be possible in the not too distant future. Maybe not in 4K res at any sort of realistic price point but 3x 40 inch + 1080p curved screen would be very nice if someone makes one.
     
  8. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Gravel, more than enough power, AWD, looking more from door windows than windshield = fun! :D

    Put track IR to setup that has 2m wide picture viewed from 1-1.5m and it starts to be quite neat, sure 3 x 2m wide pictures, preferably curved screen of such might be even better, one might even get real side windows to look trough then :p

    Well, I can only dream, it was last spring that I moved from 19" 4:3 screen to 27", but when modding I use windowed mode and 1024x768 so it is not quite fully utilized, however even 27" screen from 1m is much better than 19" when I rarely run fullscreen mode.
     
  9. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    Impresive driving there James :) What is it?
     
  10. GTrFreak

    GTrFreak Registered

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    Nice video. I can only dream of such a setup. I do want to say I would prefer a lower FOV because it looks pretty distorted in that video. I know that sense of speed is strong and looking out of the side windows is pretty neat, but your dash is way to small, as the environment in front of you.
     
  11. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Hey James, how do you get RBR setup for multi-screen? I haven't even looked into it yet as it has been quite some time since I played, but curious now.
     
  12. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    So its RBR, glad :)

    A general question from an ignorant (blush): Since side screens show side views I get when I press side view buttons, how do you manage to show all at the same time?
     
  13. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    I have yet to get it to work, but in the richardburnsrally.ini there is an x and y for screen resolution, but you need a cam hack as well otherwise it just looks stretched. I am missing a .dll file apparently for the cam hack so I just get the stretched version.
     
  14. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    that was a few years back using SoftTH and then RSRBR and CAMhack


    This is a really good example of what I believe to be the best solution for home users at this point in time for under $5K
    granted in the video below the screens might be more costly ones and the sim rig is certainly a decent one , but the general setup of 3x 1080p 50" screens then probably sat closer to them in this video will get you amazing quality for cost.
    and will be far easer to maintain and run due to the fact that most developers develop with 3 screens in mind now. ( but not projectors + warp software)



    http://racesimcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/rsc-assetto-corsaevotej.jpg

    IF the screens were set closer to the guy in this video you could replicate a close to real world view from a helmet with you getting the same sort of feeling and immersion from one of the curved screen set-ups. ( you don't tend to notice the bezels when driving)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2012
  15. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    Yep that was back when i was using 22" screens. Becuse 22" screens are always going to be too small to do 1-1 with reality and to use a real FOV I found it a better solution to simply aproach the whole thing in an abstract sense and set the FOV quite high and have a virtual steering wheel then you drive the game from your minds eye within the screen.


    When using a screen 42" and above you can set it up 1-1 with 60 FOV and turn the in game wheel off and have everything match up that way it links you into the vertual world far better and makes you feel as if you inside the game more directly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2012
  16. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    F2 news had pic of that top sim place and they used projectors and curved screen there.
     
  17. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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  18. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Other than the fact that the article was published in 2004, it was a rather interesting read. Building a projector that has replacement bulbs that cost $30 US is really great compared to the near $200 for other projectors. If I had the money to spare and the space, I would do this just as a proof of concept with an HD display instead of the one they used.

    As for the curved display that was being talked about in that article, 5 meters would be nice :) You would need quite a bit of room for it though, and preferably a large room to house it as well as the sim cockpit you are planning on using.

    Talk about a dedicated driving seat :)
     
  19. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    I'm interested in going the projector route but it must be 3d

    Awaiting for the release of the laser / led hybrid hd 3d to be released

    Instant on,no bulb replacement,runs cool,no maintenance

    Hopefully during next year ( acer just released a full hd one but not 3d yet )
     
  20. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    Interestingly bulbs for 1080p seem to last quite long, maybe 4000hours.
    Im beginning to find affordable 1080p projectors too.

    Whats this about 5m screen? Which article?

    Im thinking 3m most, 180deg, which is 2m diameter, if Im sure I can support it with a single projector.
    if not, I will probably accept 120deg.

    Also, Im not thinking about a cockpit, not yet anyway :)
     

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