CSL DD / GT DD PRO : FFB Settings

Discussion in 'Hardware Building/Buying/Usage Advice' started by pilAUTO, Sep 26, 2022.

  1. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    568
    T U T O R I A L

    I) FANATEC DRIVER

    1) Two things to consider

    a/ QR issue

    The QR lite (low quality Quick release) cannot support satisfactorily and in all circumstances more than 85% of the maximum torque of the CSL DD / GT DD PRO.

    The only solution is to buy the QR1.

    Mine is also attached to the steering wheel with an optional screw provided for this purpose : so I no longer have any problems.

    b/ Maximal torque VS Sustainable torque

    As with other Fanatec DDs, there is the maximum torque, and torque that the CSL DD / GT DD PRO can sustain in all circumstances.

    This one is 6 nm (75%).

    In reality and in practice, I note that on the one hand, 75% of the capacity of the engine is insufficient and that the value that I use seems to cause no significative issue (95%), at least in the main driving conditions (driving off big kerbs for example).

    2) Fanatec driver settings

    a/ SENSITIVITY = Manual / 1440 degrees

    b/ FORCE FFB = 95% (7,6 nm max torque)

    c/ FF SCALE = PEAK

    d/ NATURAL DAMPING = 0

    e/ NATURAL FRICTION = 0

    f/ NATURAL INERTIA = 0

    g/ INTERPOLATION = 0

    h/ FORCE EFFECT INTENSITY = 100

    i/ FORCE = 100

    j/ SPRING = 0 (Not supported by rFactor 2 from my research)

    k/ DAMPER = 0 (Not supported by rFactor 2 from my research)

    (Quotes from 2 S397 developers regarding DAMPER and SPRING :

    1) Devin :

    For rf2 you set overall, constant and periodic to 100% a d disable the other three entirely. Then in-game 0 smoothing, roughly 1.5% minimum torque (lower if it oscillates, otherwise higher) and 80% strength.

    2) Ruben :

    yeah especially the damper and spring should be 0).


    II) INGAME SETTINGS

    a/ Software / Custom / 1440 degrees

    b/ FFB Strength (ingame setting) = +70%

    At 70%, the vast majority or all of the FFB signal is not clipped in normal driving conditions, apart from very large bumps and large kerbs.

    On the other hand, and this is not a real issue, the big bumps and the big kerbs, whose interest in having an unclipped FFB signal is extremely limited and not achievable with a CSL DD / GT DD PRO because it would require an ingame FFB strenght of 25/30% for this to be the case, will have a frequently clipped FFB signal over big bumps and kerbs.

    But almost never in normal driving situations.

    c/ FFB multi (per car setting)

    Majority of cars = 100% and ajustable per car and per race conditions and setup.

    d/ Min force = 0%
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
  2. delapecs

    delapecs Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    76
    I put 0 in SPRING and DAMPER with all my Fanatec wheels, CSW v1, v2 and CLS DD, never had a problem with that. For Natural Damping I put 20%-30%, and FF Scale PEAK.
    I don't know exactly the differences but with LINEAR you are limited to 6 Nm, and with PEAK 8 Nm.
    For the moment the Natural Friction put 0 because there are a problem with FFB on restart. Fanatec will release a new firmware to solve it, but they take their time.
    Greetings
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2023
    OneMoreOdd and pilAUTO like this.
  3. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    568
    Hi.

    If you have time, I would be interested in having your complete settings for the CSL DD.

    Thanks for your post anyway.
     
  4. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    568
    After reflection, I think (think) that the most realistic settings to properly simulate the steering column are the following, these are the ones I intend to try (I could be wrong) :

    1) INGAME :

    - Software / Custom / 1440 degrees.
    - FFB Strength (ingame setting) = +55%
    To avoid rFactor 2 software clipping but also hardware clipping related to the peak settings in fanatec software).
    - FFB multi (per car setting) : majority of cars = 100% and ajustable.

    - Min force = 0%.

    2) DRIVER WHEEL :

    - SENSITIVITY = Manual / 1440 degrees.
    - FORCE FFB = 100
    - FF SCALE = PEAK
    - NATURAL DAMPING = 0
    - NATURAL FRICTION = 5
    - NATURAL INERTIA = 0
    - INTERPOLATION = 0 (1 you lose a lot of details really)
    - FORCE EFFECT INTENSITY = 100
    - FORCE = 100
    - SPRING = 0
    - DAMPER = 0

    I will say in a few days in the forum if it seems REALISTIC.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2023
  5. delapecs

    delapecs Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    76
    Hi, this is my actual configuration.
    settings.jpg
     
    Rui Santos and pilAUTO like this.
  6. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    568
    Ok well I tested. It's awesome.

    I compared from one second to the other the setting recommended by Fanatec (setting 1 on my steering wheel) with mine (setting 2 on my wheel).

    I realized that interpolation on 1 (maximum) is much better than 0 (off).

    Other than that I kept everything.
    These settings are fantastic.

    I find nevertheless that the CSL DD (GT DD PRO which is identical, in my case) lacks 25 or 33% of torque for my taste. (I am forced to put the multi FFB into play at 70% when I would have liked to put it at 60% for the majority of cars to avoid software clipping.

    Of course FFB min force = 0%, no smooth on rFactor 2.

    8 nm input in both controller files as well as 1 (100%) off-road multiplier.
     
  7. gt911

    gt911 Registered

    Joined:
    May 27, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    15
    Sublime, very big thank you pilAUTO with this setting the caterham on WorldWideRaceway becomes fantastic (csl dd 8nm)
     
    pilAUTO likes this.
  8. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    568
    EDIT :
    Thanks to @Lazza , I understood that in terms of clipping FFB multi (ingame setting) and FFB strengh (ingame setting) are not at all equivalent. So changes in this post. I will check soon but I think its correct now.

    Well I think after 6 weeks I found my final settings.

    I had thought a lot about the settings to use before receiving the steering wheel, 6 weeks after the settings are almost identical but I validate them 100%.

    Do not hesitate to use them, I find them fantastic (realistic) :

    1) INGAME :

    - Software / Custom / 1440 degrees.
    - FFB Strength (ingame setting) = +55%
    To avoid rFactor 2 software clipping but also hardware clipping related to the peak settings in fanatec software).
    - FFB multi (per car setting) : majority of cars = 100% and ajustable.
    - Min force = 0%.

    2) DRIVER WHEEL :

    - SENSITIVITY = Manual / 1440 degrees.
    - FORCE FFB = 100
    - FF SCALE = PEAK
    - NATURAL DAMPING = 0
    - NATURAL FRICTION = 5
    - NATURAL INERTIA = 0
    - INTERPOLATION = 0 (1 you lose a lot of details really)
    - FORCE EFFECT INTENSITY = 100
    - FORCE = 100
    - SPRING = 0
    - DAMPER = 0
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2023
  9. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,278
    Likes Received:
    6,511
    I don't think there's anything to be gained by running the FFB strength below 100%. Should really leave it on 100 (or -100 for wheels that require it) and play with the other settings.

    This FFB strength doesn't contribute to, or reduce, clipping in any way and isn't shown in FFB output telemetry. If you think a wheel should be less than full strength (to avoid hardware clipping, power/temperature issues, etc) it's probably best to do that in the driver settings (and leave games on full strength), and I doubt (?) that applies to this DD wheel anyway.

    To be clear: FFB strength will not affect software FFB clipping at all.

    If the majority of cars required, say, 75% vehicle specific mult on your previous wheel to reduce clipping, they'll need the same on this wheel. That software clipping happens in the game and is completely independent of the wheel you're using. The only wheel consideration is how much clipping you might tolerate in order to get some decently-strong forces - again with a DD you're generally ok to further reduce clipping, as you can still produce enough cornering force.

    Run FFB strength on 100, and adjust the vehicle mult to minimise/tune clipping.
     
  10. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    568
    Hi @Lazza !

    I'm not sure we understood each other :

    I put the FFB force in the driver at 100%. In the driver.

    In the game there are two strength adjustment values, I say in the game :

    1) A global value, which I was talking about and which I systematically put at 70% or -70%.

    2) One value per car called FFB multi.

    The question is :

    Is it the same to put 70% in the overall strength of the game and 120% of FFB multi (=84%) // VS // 100% in the overall strength of the game and 84% of FFB multi (=84%).

    So tell me if we understood each other correctly (or not) and if not, tell me if these two things are not equivalent.

    By putting 70% overall ingame strength and 100% multi FFB, I thought I was safe from most car clipping.

    Anyway, thank you for your comments and advice.
     
  11. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,278
    Likes Received:
    6,511
    I know this is confusing, because it's hard not to use the same name for 3 different things! :D

    So, I'll talk about 3 settings for wheel FFB:
    1. Driver Force (windows / wheel software)
    2. FFB strength (in rF2, Calibration, the global value)
    3. FFB Mult (same screen, vehicle specific setting)

    Calculation flow:
    • Physics produces raw steering column torque
    • Value gets scaled in accordance with several parameters, including steering torque capability, steering torque sensitivity, and FFB Mult (3). This is where software clipping happens, and can be adjusted.
    • The value is now multiplied by FFB strength (2) and sent by the game to the wheel driver.
    • The value is multiplied by Driver Force (1)
    This final output, which the wheel uses, can produce hardware clipping depending how the wheel behaves.

    If the combination of json parameters and FFB Mult (3) clips the FFB signal, reducing FFB strength (2) and/or Driver Force (1) will only make the final output feel weaker, without eliminating the clipping at all.

    So to answer your question: no, they are not equivalent.

    Recommendations:
    • FFB strength (2): 100%, or -100%, based on the wheel polarity (correct or wrong - not a tuning item)
    • Driver Force (1): 100% if the wheel produces a linear force curve at full strength and won't hardware clip. Some suggest 95% for the T300 for example.
    • FFB Mult (3): literally set per vehicle, but generally around 70% to reduce clipping for most cars and mid-range wheels.
    User preference is a factor in FFB Mult, and depending on wheel strength. Weak gear-driven wheels might feel better with stronger forces despite more clipping, very strong DD wheels might favour lower forces to completely eliminate routine software clipping as they still produce strong (and clean) forces.

    In the past when you've discussed FFB strength and clipping, I assumed you were adjusting FFB Mult and hopefully advised the same. Leave FFB strength on 100/-100%.


    Update: this has now changed slightly, as of Dec 2022. See below.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2023
    8Ball likes this.
  12. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    568
    I modified a trick according to the relevant remark of Lazza, I will test tomorrow but I think it is better now.

    See above.
     
  13. Flaux

    Flaux Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,012
    Likes Received:
    422
    Hey Lazza, that would be a great infobox in the UI of the game. Well done.
     
  14. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    568
    So I test and yeah I don't have anymore clipping by doing this.

    I clearly had clipping in putting 70% on FFB strength INGAME + 70% FFB multi with BTCC Toyota (feeling no telemetry).

    Now no clipping (feeling no telemetry) with FFB strengh 100% + 50% FFB multi with BTCC Toyota.

    In terms of "global force" its approximately the same, but best feeling because low or no clipping.

    Thanks again Lazza!

    My settings so which are very good, reason why I share :

    1) INGAME :

    - Software / Custom / 1440 degrees.
    - FFB Strength (ingame setting) = +55%
    To avoid rFactor 2 software clipping but also hardware clipping related to the peak settings in fanatec software).
    - FFB multi (per car setting) : majority of cars = 100% and ajustable.
    - Min force = 0%.

    2) DRIVER WHEEL :

    - SENSITIVITY = Manual / 1440 degrees.
    - FORCE FFB = 100
    - FF SCALE = PEAK
    - NATURAL DAMPING = 0
    - NATURAL FRICTION = 5
    - NATURAL INERTIA = 0
    - INTERPOLATION = 0 (1 you lose a lot of details really)
    - FORCE EFFECT INTENSITY = 100
    - FORCE = 100
    - SPRING = 0
    - DAMPER = 0
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2023
    8Ball and Hazi like this.
  15. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    568
    Important :


    Slight modification : NATURAL FRICTION 5%.
     
  16. delapecs

    delapecs Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    76
    Hi @pilAUTO, I ended up with a setup like yours, almost all Fanatec driver values to 0. FFB seems more raw and direct to me. I have FFB multi from 65% to 70% because sometimes it gets clipped, and filter/smooth to 3. I give Natural Friction 5% a chance as you say, surely the steering wheel will not feel so artificially loose/light.

    For the steering degrees, I changed from 1440º to 900º, on the steering wheel and in the Game Software/custom setting. For some reason 900º and 270º wheel lock in the car setup feel different to me than 1440º and 270º and I have to change to 240º to get roughly the same degrees/feel. Do you know if this is normal behavior?
    I have to double check all my saved car setups to see the value for the degree of steering, it could be that I saved it when it had values greater than 900º.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2023
  17. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,278
    Likes Received:
    6,511
    Quick update for my post above: FFB Strength doesn't need to be 100% anymore, can be less to act as a "lower clipping" starting point.

    So for pilAUTO's settings, you could put FFB strength on 70% and start with each car's FFB Mult on 100%, as that's equivalent to vice-versa. Just might mean fewer - and smaller - vehicle-specific adjustments to reduce clipping.
     
    pilAUTO likes this.
  18. MikeBZH44

    MikeBZH44 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2022
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi

    I'm testing those settings but I'm facing a weird issue.

    My settings in the game :
    [​IMG]

    My settings in Fanatec :
    [​IMG]

    But when I'm in the car (Porsche Cayman) from LFM, the steering wheel angle does not look the same :

    [​IMG]

    My steering wheel is angled 90° but in the game it's not 90°

    To get the same angle between my wheel and the game, I have to change the value in Fanatec to 440°
     
  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,278
    Likes Received:
    6,511
    Individual cars may not work correctly. Doesn't mean your settings are wrong, but you may choose to adjust them for those cars.
     
  20. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2020
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    568
    I think last adjustment
    Goal is to avoid hardware clipping in peak mode, in avoiding 100% the software clipping.
    FFB strengh in rFactor 2 now set at 55%.
     

Share This Page