Croft Circuit, UK - v1.01 (updated:15/12/2016)

Discussion in 'Locations' started by senormen, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

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  2. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Wow, this sim is frustrating. No one has complained more about shimmering and jaggies in rF2 than me (go ahead and search for years and years of comments ;) ). I see them on almost every track, even small items that were not optimized in brand new tracks like Toban, even though it is great overall.

    I watched the video introducing this track while it was downloading and thought OMG, look at all the shimmering and flashing...I sure hope that's just video compression. The original feels3 track never had that for me.

    Voila, I drive the new one and it is as close to perfect as I have ever experienced in rF2. Everything is perfect except the AIW and the flat curbs as discussed above.

    How the &%#@ do I see jaggies everywhere, but not on this track--but you do see them? The new graphics engine cannot come soon enough. This is by far the most irritating aspect of rF2 for me since the days of rF1.

    What possible settings do we all have to mask or worsen this situation? It's like we are in inverse universes. All the tracks that look like crap on my rig probably look fine on yours.
     
  3. Gijs van Elderen

    Gijs van Elderen Registered

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    No problem mate, i'm nitpicking. And i'm talking about little details.

    But going up in graphics engine won't fix old rF1 habbits.
    Infact, if the graphics engine (texture filtering/texture resolution) is getting better in rendering textures pixel/texel ratio by default: overriding this ratio make things even worse.
    Mip map values should be "0" for 99% of the textures . (A maximum of -1 is allow for special circumstances.)
    Modders need to get rid of the habit using negative by default. It will only getting worse if the graphics engine gets better.
    For this version: I spotted the issue before i could exit the pit. Unsubed from v1.01sm and installed v1.0 again. In that area it's much more ballanced.

    @feels3 did a great job on this area.
    So why fix things that aren't broken???
    @Tuttle warned modders enough about using negative mip mapping.
    @stonec requested to turn negative mip mapping off by default in the player.json. (Tuttle said no to this.)
    @Luc Van Camp put it in the rF2 wiki: http://wiki.rfactor.net/index.php?title=MipMap

    So enough info about it. But still @senormen , @McNolo , @Euskotracks, @Nuno Lourenço use negative mip mapping a lot and just for no reason!!!

    Why? Guys... Why? Does S397 really need to adjust the graphics engine to your habits? Like @Marc Collins and @stonec suggested?
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
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  4. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Gijs, this still doesn't explain why Croft looks gorgeous on my rig, while other tracks look terrible. Maybe you could show the specific problems on Croft so I can go look very closely to see if I am blind. And, I could show some examples that are bad on my set-up and maybe they look OK on yours?

    Or, if we are seeing the same things and you are going to complain about Croft, I would suggest there are about 100 tracks worse that should be in the queue first for fixing ;)
     
  5. Flaux

    Flaux Registered

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    I'm with Gijs. When you set your AA to tracks like COTA convertions that use massive negative Mipmaps (-4 or -5 iirc) you won't see jaggies in a track that uses -1 or -2 for instance... Because all the AA power is pulled over it.

    But it is wrong anyway. So making something wrong that was right seems odd...

    I'm only using rf2 AA and AF values so 99% of all the 3rd party tracks look like (bad) and I uninstall them. But that's a problem on my end. Haha. I usually can't use stuff that isn't thought through immensly....
     
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  6. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    I said no to this because the Bias is a useful option sometimes. Problem is people it's overdoing with that option, but we could need it. You can need it to smooth out some moiree jaggies issues for textures using lot of tiny stripes, in the distance, with a tad of positive bias...or you could need a very bit of negative to boost a normal map render etc. Sure we could think of something resetting to zero when big negatives are applied to T1 without hacking the player file. We'll see.

    With modern GPUs capabilities and today average monitor resolutions, using hardcore negatives it's totally balderdash. :)
     
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  7. Flaux

    Flaux Registered

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    BTW... what have I done wrong that my trees are semitransparent? It says Croft 1.01sm so it uses the correct version I dl'ed from the mediafire-link in here. And I cleaned shaders and cbash. (wouldn't be needed, thought...never used that track before after the reinstall of rf2.)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  8. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    This happens in about one third of all modded tracks in rF2. First turn all Nvidia settings to default in control panel. Then make sure AA level in rF2 is no higher than 3, it will usually be enough to fix this. The other solution that I don't advocate is to turn off transparency AA from player.JSON (this will leave ugly edges in trees but fix transparency). I suspect the trees have be re-exported from 3D modelling software in order to get a permanent fix, which likely won't happen as only feels3 has access to the original models.

    Btw I agree 100% with @Gijs van Elderen on the mip map issue, please use no more than -1 and even that only if necessary. The tracks I have converted and improved for my league, 90% have used ridiculous mip map values. I have seen at least a couple of sims provide the option to limit this effect in menu, LFS does this and I reckon even an rF1 based game had it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  9. Gijs van Elderen

    Gijs van Elderen Registered

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    It's not that dramatic at this track. :)
    I think i was flaming a bit to hard. :oops: Sorry about that.

    There is no texture with a mip map lower as -1 on this track. But there are a few with an already good resolution and mip mapped negitave. It's noticable if you really take good look at the asphalt when you're in movement. There is a bit of room for improvement in this area.
    I've also noticed some objects poping up. Like the armco at the end of the straight.

    Maybe all this was justifed when the track was first released, and hardware wasn't like it is today.

    Croft, Poznan and Putnam Park are and still are one of the best independent releases.

    Thank you Feels3 for the permission.
    And thank you @senormen to take that job.
     
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  10. Eddy

    Eddy Registered

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    I don't know a lot about the tech and i do trust @Gijs van Elderen at his word. But within 24hrs after @feels3 gave his permission @senormen came up with his version, me thinks it's a stellar job and highly appreciated by the community.

    No offence ment ;)
     
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  11. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    Quick observation, the ai could do with a proper wet path. There are a few corners where they put wheels on the grass under braking and run wide.
     
  12. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Hopefully Senormen (and people he collaborates with) will release another update with some of these things fixed. And I am also curious if he is working on Putnam and Poznan. If not, we need volunteers to do those two tracks as well.

    The quick turn-around release was great, but not at the expense of doing a thorough job considering the three + years that have passed.
     
  13. Flaux

    Flaux Registered

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    Do I understand this correct? The bug everyone was moaning about for years. The one and only reason feels3 gave permissen to update the track in the first place, is the only thing that hasn't been updated? To rf2 standards?

    How odd is that?

     
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  14. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    I see this effect with an AMD card. AA level in rF2 makes no difference to it. But I am using SSAA because without that everything in rF2 is a jaggies-filled, shimmering, shadow-flickering mess.
     
  15. Prodigy

    Prodigy Registered

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  16. feels3

    feels3 Member Staff Member

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    Nice update! I hope you guys still enjoy this track :)
     
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  17. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Are you kidding? Your three tracks are still among the very best available for rF2! A tribute to your outstanding artistry and talent that we still see on display in that other product ;)
     
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  18. nightrider01

    nightrider01 Registered

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    Er AI keep running out of fuel and also running a 2 hour race last night with gt2 vettes when it's time for the AI to pit [well the ones that arn't park up at the side of the track with no fuel] a couple of them stop on the track just after the last turn before the pit lane,which then creates a car park,which then brings out the safety car,which then leads to forever driving round on the caution lap cause the race never goes green....so yeah thanks for WASTING 2 hours of my time with this BUGGY RUBBISH!!....really no one forces you to makes these mods so try testing them before you release them to at lest make sure they kind of work first!!!"
     
  19. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    Show some respect please, Modders work tirelessly to create items for our enjoyment. Should you find a bug post about it in a constructive & polite manner and you'll get the respect back, ranting about it like a spoilt brat won't get you anything in return. Sure bugs can be frustrating at times but they happen - in every game.
     
  20. Alvaro

    Alvaro Registered

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    Hey dude
    u dont have a clue how much work in modding a track is needed ,and how much tests are needed for checking everything with all types of cars that are available. And sometimes are the cars the problem and not the track.
    well, only thing can say when i see in what a manner u are posting here, u are an idiot !! .
    and better next time u think before u post. Every modder needs respect for the work.
     

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