Couple of suggested easy fixes

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Christos Segkounas, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. Mister Bronze

    Mister Bronze Registered

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    The UI is not great. I can't see that anyone would necessarily say otherwise. But the options are there and with a little common sense and patience it is navigable. I'm old so I kinda like the text approach.:p

    I have no idea how to add a livery to the game. That Tuning screen looks scary :eek:. I agree that more 'documentation' in any variety would be great but I don't think the lack of it is exclusively a problem with rF2. Most complex games these days struggle on that front. Have you played Elite Dangerous?

    Ahh, loved those days when a fat manual came in the box and it was hours or even days before I even touched the game itself.
     
  2. Seven Smiles

    Seven Smiles Registered

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    Making software easy to use for new users who are at the bottom of the learning curve is very difficult and ISI have a long history of failure in this. (Note that I'm talking about getting the software working properly, not having my hand held through "Driving A Race Car 101" - I've never raced but I've done dozens of track days in Britain and Europe and can pedal my Caterham pretty quickly). If you like, it's the difference between MS-DOS and Windows. I'm no IT numpty, I've been a software engineer for almost 40 years but I'm currently dabbling with AC for the first time and struggling through all sorts of things that experienced users have got used to. So at the moment I'm not enjoying the game, I'm working at it to get the wheel to feel something like a real car, brake pedal to work as I'd expect, and so on (all the stuff I think (hope) I've already done for rF2). There's no point a game having the most wonderful sim-racing experience if most users give up the struggle before they reach that point. It's easy to say what I want: the initial ease of use of F1 2017, to just jump in a car and have fun, then afterwards being able to explore and deepen the experience over time to get to the best that rF2 can offer. Easy to say but much harder to do!

    One thing I have managed to do in AC with some success is to add skins, something I've yet to do reliably in rF2 (and I could only paint skins in rF1 with the aid of regular recourse to tutorials).
     
  3. Seven Smiles

    Seven Smiles Registered

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    :)
     
  4. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    e
    I can't come up with anything in rF2 that makes it impossible to close in a lap for a newbie. I mean the UI is simpler than in many consoles games. In some console racing games I have to go through submenus of submenus to get things set up with no mouse support, etc. In rF2 you can basically click race from the main menu and then click race another time, and so you're on track with two clicks. The controller settings are also accessible both in race weekend and from main menu. Things like brake bias on the last page are details. I believe if you're equipped to set up cars, you can navigate to the final tab.

    I think most moaning about the UI that I read from Steam review comes from spoiled brats that expect animations and fadings everywhere. It makes no difference to usability IMO, if anything it may worsen it, as I have to cancel each animation manually in F1 2017 for instance. I recently wrote on Discord about the main complaints that new people seem to have with rF2:

    -Graphics. DX11 beta improved them, but it's not available in demo and while I think some level of user knowledge is necessary to run a sim, I don't think we can expect them all to jump to the beta branch. So they are still seeing the old graphics, which impacts review score and general perception.

    -Bad or not enough content. I recently discovered that once you make a fresh install of rF2, the content you actually get preinstalled is the OLD content from the ISI workshop (including content like Montreal 2006 version converted from rF1). All of the newer content you have to subscribe manually to. This is the worst case scenario IMO. The user gets to see first all the old cars that haven't been updated to DX11 by S397, and all the newer cars they have to subscribe to manually. The old content also reflects on the perception of graphics, so IMO this is a huge problem that needs resolving.

    -Wheel support. Main problem seems to be with G29/G920, especially the lack of auto rotation support. Not sure if it's Logitech's or whose fault, but ISI always used to fix support for new wheels quickly. I think this kind of bug is a lot more preventing people to enjoy the game than the UI.

    -UI. Here the main complaint just seems to be that it looks stone age. I agree with this, but I don't agree that it's not functional as is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  5. Christos Segkounas

    Christos Segkounas Registered

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    Far as I can remember you go into the car selection and then choose tuning menu, there's various options there, one of which is about steering.
    By changing from default to the "realistic" setting (pretty sure that's what it's called) the steering feel is transformed.
    Personally I'd say to the better to the point that leaves me perplexed as to S397s choice here.
    It's a quick test you can do for yourselves and let me know what you think about the steering options here.
    Not as serious as the Civic case only in the sense that,apparently, 90% of RF2 players prefer slower cars and there's little interest for the faster formulas, they seem to scare people away, so less damage done here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  6. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    In some software, fat manuals are replaced by wizards.
    Cheers.
     
  7. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    I gu as they have never played another sim then,it's no harder to configure than any other,and if they look at the options before pressing race,or went into the options after having failed to complete a lap to have a tinker,as normal people would,they might have succeeded.
    No game is just one click racing
     
  8. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Iracing school videos are only watched to get a certificate,there's no info in them to get you up and running,you still have to search the forums to find anything out,every sim I've played is lacking a Manuel of sorts
     
  9. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I can't talk about F2 since I don't drive openwheelers. Good you found what presumably is another BIG BUG.

    For the civics, the bug was spotted back in May. This is over 4 months ago. It could be seen that both telemetry (behaviour) and the tgm file format of medium tires was completely different to soft and hard compounds.

    As you say, default tires are the buggy ones so there is no real believable possibility that the "so called" test team missed to test those. I understand that the track team is at least composed by three people or more.

    How on earth did they miss to spot such weird behaviour with medium tires?
    How on earth car modding team hasn't even replied to this? @MarcG inspire us with an explanation to this, please.

    I cannot believe that the solution to this bug takes more than hour to be solved. 4 months later we are still waiting.

    The only explanation to including this tire, is that they messed up in one of the steps which should be easily spotted considering that the version of tire model is different on othe bugged medium tires.

    https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/honda-civic-btcc-v1-3-observations.55619/
     
  10. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    Believe me @SPASKIS I'm just as disappointed as you that certain "seemingly" quick fixes have yet to be fixed after quite some time, but banging on about them at every given opportunity however is IMO pointless, as S397 have their working plan set out the way they want it not the way we want. Let them get on with improving RF2 overall, enjoy the experience, the ride and stop fretting over things you have no control over :)
     
  11. Christos Segkounas

    Christos Segkounas Registered

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    Problem is the sheer number of people jumping into the Civic and quitting it in disgust 3 laps later is not helping RF2 prosper, especially seeing as a simple stop-gap solution is to switch the default tire to the soft and that's that, take your time to fix the medium after that, take years, won't really matter.
    Let the medium be an optional crippled choice that will not drive people away every single day for the devs forgetting to switch A to B with the mouse.
     
  12. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Have you considered that if some type of sign of caring about this issues from the devs would have been shown, appreciating the labour of bug reporters by minimally replying at those threads confirming the bugs and, when possible, priorizing their fixes for existing problems rather on focusing on next topic in the agenda of something that still doesn't give problems, the attitude of many of us would be the same?

    If others keep on showing the same attitude towards our problems why should we change our attitude?

    BTW It's not only about the bug fixing Marc what I asked. I understand it is more difficult to be politically correct when talking about test team labour.
     
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  13. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    [QUOTE="patchedupdemon, post: 913918, member: 46429" after having failed to complete a lap to have a tinker,as normal people would,they might have succeeded.[/QUOTE]
    Why do serious serious software house still devote thousands of hours to improve the ease of use of their applications, when normal people already succeed in using them?

    Who knows, may be the market of "normal players" as you would define them, is not big enough to support an elite title as RF2?

    It is clear that my friends are very dumb, they should go on playing with lesser titles like PC2 or AC.

    Cheers.

    P.S.
    The aspiring pilots are very dumb, so they have taken steps, and this how the download page of the freeware flight sim FlightGear looks.

    Looking for help?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  14. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    Well they have in some cases, it's not liked they've ignored every thread with reported issues. If you want them to respond to every single issue then take that up with them: support@studio-397.com
     
  15. Brack Jabham

    Brack Jabham Registered

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    Another suggestion is to apply to join the test team. I have no experience of it, but you may have a better chance to be heard if you are part of that group?
     
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  16. Alexandr Meshkov

    Alexandr Meshkov Registered

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    Just remember how to get out from pits in Skip Barber formula at Lime Rock :D
     
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  17. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    I fully agree on this, specially the old content part...I have still a crazy idea on my mind, revive the old fictionl content!
    I will release the old fictional cars and tracks reworked, reshaped and updated for demo and first install (licensed content workshop only) I will also leave fictional cars "open" for modders (usefull as base for physics)...
    But I am not a dev (really?lol) so you guys are save lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  18. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Why do serious serious software house still devote thousands of hours to improve the ease of use of their applications, when normal people already succeed in using them?

    Who knows, may be the market of "normal players" as you would define them, is not big enough to support an elite title as RF2?

    It is clear that my friends are very dumb, they should go on playing with lesser titles like PC2 or AC.

    Cheers.

    P.S.
    The aspiring pilots are very dumb, so they have taken steps, and this how the download page of the freeware flight sim FlightGear looks.

    Looking for help?
    [/QUOTE]
    I never said they was dumb,I'm just saying there's no sim on the market that spells the "easy" stuff out for us,they all lack that part and everyone has to trawl forums to find the most simple stuff out,that's why I have feel no sympathy if they quit after 2'mins without looking for the answers they need,it's common practice to have to do so.
    It would be great for sims to provide this for us,but non do
     
  19. Jon

    Jon Registered

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    I agree 100% about not fretting about what you have no control over. In fact, I often write posts on impulse only to delete them soon after because there really seems no point in raising the same issues without any real feedback from the developers. A lot of enjoyment can be had from rFactor 2, so much in fact that its very difficult to get any enjoyment from any other sim once you've played rFactor. This is the problem, if rFactor 2 fails then there's nothing to go back to (except perhaps iRacing), and the whole engine could be lost.

    SPASKIS nailed the biggest problem on the head in his last post, too many outstanding bugs that are not being addressed which is resulting in (to quote another long-term member who hasn't posted for a while) "the movement of leagues to other platforms or their closure all together".

    SPASKIS and other members are free to be constructively critical, employees of Studio 397 are not. I suspect a large number of them agree with what is being said here but don't want to risk their job by repeating them, but are pleased that at least the users are passionate and are bringing up their concerns. I suspect the merger/take over has resulted in some disgruntled employees and mismanagement that has led to significant changes in the roadmap and the general inability to address these bugs.

    Notice that Christopher uploaded the WIP Brabham BT44B 1975 using his own Steam account. He no doubt did this on his own accord. Notice that no developer steps into these discussions, because they don't want to "rock the boat" with their superiors. Notice how Tim was always on these forums and has simply "vanished". There's almost certainly some kind of discord going on in Studio 397, which is very often the case with any merger or take over in any business.

    Just a final note on the UI which keeps being mentioned. I personally was impressed with it; it's clean and uncluttered and I was able to get up and racing within minutes. If someone is unable to do so and unable to find out how to do so, then I really can't imagine how he'd have the patience to spend hours practicing a circuit which is something that rFactor demands. The brake balance really doesn't need to be changed at first, and in any case it's only to go through the tabs on the setup menu.

    The DX11 graphics complaint that Stonec mentioned I don't believe is due to users loading up DX9. Rather I think it's because the graphics simply don't look good during the day, Monaco '66 lacks contrast and looks "washed out", while at Spa' 66 the sky can be completely light and blue yet the circuit dark. I've found that the game looks beautiful only when the time is set to around 7am or at dusk. Secondly, remember many Steam users are coming straight from AC so they are bound to be critical of the graphics, even if they are being unreasonable comparing the two.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  20. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    On side note...a DX11 demo is useless right now just because they are still working on it, when it will be ready a DX11 demo will be a smart move but not now...
     

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