Controller Limits

Discussion in 'Wish Lists' started by Derek Speare, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. Christopher Snow

    Christopher Snow Registered

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    Hello and good to hear from you, Derek.

    I myself use a couple of USB boards from the now-defunct Canadian firm "Beta-Innovations" for my own DIY controls...and, fortunately, the software BI provided me has, so far, allowed me to do for myself pretty much what I suspect Xpadder might do for others...but otherwise, I'm glad to know of the option too, so thanks.

    I would opine that the status of "racing sims" today is such that they typically allow us to do things in real time...with our hardware and controllers...that really could NOT be done with the actual hardware and controllers..."back in the day."

    Emphasis on that last phrase, too: ^^^ ...as my comment is particularly aimed at today's controllers which let us get away with murder, so to speak, at the wheel, in comparison to what even a giant of his day like Stirling Moss might have been able to do at the wheel of his own rig.

    And therefore too, my comments are mostly aimed at mods which attempt to emulate the experience of driving older cars...and not so much the modern "flatshift both ways" cars of today.

    Today, even for use with older mods we have "short shifters" and "load-cell brakes*" (I use one myself)...and our shifters, NEVER, fail to go into any gear we choose to select**...

    ...**and then even when they do, we almost never pay a realistic penalty for our mis-shift folly....

    [*Nothing wrong with load-cell brakes, IMO, as they emulate, most accurately, the performance of real-world brakes (or at least real world non-ABS brakes).]

    ====

    Only one example ^^^....

    Summation: I think I would like to see any new sim make controller inputs as open and seamless as possible...

    ...but ultimately so the manufacturers and modders...could then turn right around and use that level of control to make them more closed again (and more reflective of the REAL level of control available in the earlier age(s). Which, suffice it say, wasn't "quite so much."

    The odds of this happening with our new sims are slim...bordering on none...but that's, at least what I would like to see.

    The fact is: Driving even a FAST Porsche back in 1970 required real patience from the driver...because the shifter (and gearbox--two DIFFERENT things, IMO) also required patience to let the parts mesh properly with one another. The Porsche drivers used to complain about it, in fact (Vic Elford for one)...but were told (from the factory): "Ve must be patient, ja? Ve shift ze car slowly...smoothly..."

    I would really like to see a set of controllers that would not only LET me drive that way (well...no problem there, as I can do it now...)...but which would demand of me that I did so (an entirely different thing).

    And then find a league, too, which also demanded it. :D


    CS
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2012
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  2. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    I have opened a new 3d about this argument because I didn't know about the existence of this thread.
    It's annoying that a pure simulatore like rF2 puts a limits on the controllers.I have already
    1-g27(soon CSR-Elite)
    2-DSD pro shifter
    3-DSD button box.
    4-GI-Max(Symproject)
    5-SPI-D Digital Speedometer
    6-soon CST pedals.
     
  3. jcenzano

    jcenzano Registered

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    BUMP and+1

    i can't believe a racing game in 2012 has this limitation.

    I bought RF2 and was "forced" to move to Pcars because I have a lot of controllers connected to my computer (flight, racing and even virtual) and my racing controllers make number 9 and 10.

    For me RF2 is a NO GO until it allows more than 4 DX controllers.

    And beleieve me I would like it to be a GO...
     
  4. isamu

    isamu Registered

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    Unbelievable indeed.
     
  5. Brian Clancy

    Brian Clancy Registered

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    I do think it would be a big positive for a growing number of racers to be able to use a greater number of controllers. 7-8 individual controllers is an easier to reach number than you might think. However, 4 is better than the 3 in the original rFactor (and most other sims). There are work arounds too, but its still a problem for a lot of people.

    I hope ISI are listening and maybe give us hardware nuts a little sign that something may be possible in the future to help :)
     
  6. lopsided

    lopsided Registered

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    +1
    Looks like I need xpadder, I'm up to 5.
     
  7. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    I see no reason to leave any limits. It should support as many controllers as operation system provides.
     
  8. Brian Clancy

    Brian Clancy Registered

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    That would be the ideal, I am sure there must have been a good reason in the first place when it was limited to 3 HID devices in rF1, but the scene has moved forward massively in Hardware since then and this should be reflected in rF2 :)

    Lets hope we hear something soon :)
     
  9. bredo

    bredo Registered

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    Hi Derek,

    Yes, the only thing preventing me from playing the beta is the fact that I have to disconnect the two boxes I bought from you in order to make the pedals work. So I always go back to iRacing.

    I check every new update but it seems this issue is not a priority so I guess I will have to wait a bit longer.

    Bredo
     
  10. bredo

    bredo Registered

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    uhm, I got the gi-max and the spi-d too, and they are not controllers ;)

    but the pro shift from symprojects is, and my t500rs is, and my csp´s are, and my two derek-boxes are, so I cant play rfactor - the pedals dont work...
     
  11. lopsided

    lopsided Registered

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    I ended up downloading Xpadder so I could use 5 controllers. It was confusing at first but once I realized the blank boxes at the top (no graphics for my hardware) were the detected controllers it was very easy to use. Had no other choice really, each time I unplugged a controller the computer would re-assign the controller's "number" (don't know what to call it) when I plugged one back in. An example ...Joy 2 became Joy 3 which of course meant I was re-mapping my button box each time I unplugged/replugged controllers even though I always plugged them into the same onboard (mobo) USB ports. Didn't know what else to do, Xpadder works in the meantime.
     
  12. isamu

    isamu Registered

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    Wait, so does Xpadder allow any game to use more than the game's default limit for USB controllers? How does it work?
     
  13. Vinceton

    Vinceton Registered

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    I think it just allows you to map the joystick to keyboard. Xpadder itself can recognise as many controllers as the OS allows. The limitation here is that it's only effective for button boxes. Controllers with "axis" is more difficult to remap. So if some guy decides to come out with Clutch, brake, accelerate each using separate usb, you're screwed.

    I think, I dunno. Don't quote me.
     
  14. lopsided

    lopsided Registered

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    Isamu, I'll share what I know, just started using it. As some of my game software will allow let's say 3 controllers (rf2 allows 4) I use the pedals, wheel and button box as normal, no changes. But I take my DSD Sequential shifter and my TH8 Shifter and use xpadder to remap.
    Example: I open the game and map gear Up and Down (for sequential) to the + and - buttons on the keyboard. I also map the 7 gears of my H-shifter to #1 thru #7 on the keyboard (#8 for reverse). Just like I was intending on using the keyboard for these functions, not the controller.

    Obviously we don't want to use the keyboard as our gear shifter so that's where Xpadder comes in.
    Now we open Xpadder. It recognizes all of your controllers. As I am only going to use it for the purpose of remapping the h-shifter and sequential shifter I focus on those, ignoring the wheel, pedals, button box.

    I choose my H-shifter in Xpadder and shift thru each gear ...this will cause each "button push" (gear change) to appear on the screen as a box. Now you can click on each "box" in Xpadder and assign a keyboard stroke to it.
    So after going thru each gear on my h-shifter, 8 boxes appear on screen. I click on the box that represents 1st gear and I choose the keyboard button #1 ...I've already told the game #1 key is first gear. Repeat for each gear.
    And then I go to the sequential and do the same thing.

    It has far more capability than I'm using, but as I said, I'm just getting started. Those are the basics though.
     
  15. isamu

    isamu Registered

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    lopsided thank you for explaining how that works. Much appreciated. I have used xpadder before but now I mainly use Joy2Key as it does pretty much the same thing only it's a bit simpler to use. But here's my dilema....

    I am running Windows 7 and like you, I *too* have a TH8RS gated shifter. The problem is that Windows places it as controller #1. No matter how many times I've uninstalled and re-installed the device even before installing my ECCI 700 Wheel and CST pedals, the shifter is ALWAYS placed at ID#1. In addition, I also have a Belkin Nostromo gaming pad and Windows always places it as device ID#2, above my wheel and pedals. So a game like say, GPL, it will only recognize the first three controllers in windows' lists, preventing it from seeing my pedals. Very very annoying.

    Lopsided If there was a way to disable my TH8RS gated shifter in Windows' controller device menu, but have Xpadder still acknowledge it so that I could map it to my keyboard keys, that would be an *excllent* solution!! How do you get around this, since I assume your TH8RS is categorized as device #1 as well, isn't it?
     
  16. lopsided

    lopsided Registered

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    Hi Isamu, I wish I could tell you for sure but I really don't know. You see I am still struggling to get past some of the controller limit issues I'm having.
    We are discussing it in this thread and there was a suggestion last night by antoinel that I want to try. Not sure if this will help you or not ...
     
  17. bredo

    bredo Registered

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    Rfactor 2 can "see" the first 4 controllers.
    My pedals are number 5 or 6 or something on the list.
    I could ofcourse map the throttle/accelerator/clutch to a keypress, but on/off throttle and brake is not really an option for me ;)
     
  18. lopsided

    lopsided Registered

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    Bredo, That is the problem in a nut shell! While Xpadder will allow us to re-map a controller, the game decides which controller is #1, #2 on so on. If the controller we intend on re-mapping isn't one of the 4 that are recognized (3 in rf1) then you can't re-map it. My pedals are controller #5, so that creates two issues... it can't be seen to be re-mapped and even if it were, you don't want to re-map pedals.
    If I could TELL the computer which order to see the controllers in then I would have it recognize the wheel, pedals, button box and one of my two shifters, then re-map the extra shifter with Xpadder. Unfortunately I can't, because it chooses which controllers to recognize and in which order.
     
  19. isamu

    isamu Registered

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    Yes. This is a very big problem with Windows and DirectInput. It's a shame they programmed the OS without an option to re-order the USB controller to whatever order you'd like. I hope Mr Maninger is making good progress on his USB device remover utility and releases it soon.
     
  20. Abriel Nei

    Abriel Nei Registered

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    Did anyone try this free program (but you can donate to me if it helps you :p ):
    http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html

    It seems to be what you are waiting for - it can disable/enable USB devices without unplugging/replugging them.

    PS: I don't have 4 controllers so I did not test it with rF (I just tried to enable/disable device and seems to be working).
     

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