Cockpit to be independant of FOV

Discussion in 'Wish Lists' started by MystaMagoo, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    4
    When you change your FOV the cockpit resizes with it.
    If you go low enough in FOV then the cockpit virtually disappears.
    No dials,no mirrors.
    Seat adjustment isn't enough to get the cockpit back.
     
  2. Boyd

    Boyd Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    4
    That is the nature of FOV. I don't understand why you want the cockpit to be independent of FOV? How would that work?
    What will be really awesome is when VR like Occulus Rift becomes supported and of useable quality, then this would no longer be an issue, because like in a real car you would only have to look down to see your dials ... :) I think the wishlist should rather include VR headset support. Now that will be incredible.
     
  3. Timpie Claessens

    Timpie Claessens Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    1
    Buy more screens :)
     
  4. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    31
    The cockpit of the car is a physical object in the game's, or real life's, reality just like the road ahead of you, the opponent's car 5 ft ahead of you, the tree 50 ft ahead of you, and the mountain 1 km ahead of you. You can't magically make certain parts of the world appear differently relative to other parts of the world when changing the FOV - to do so would be physically changing the actual size of the particular object (cockpit in this example).

    Also, you can move your seat back in order to gain some more visualization of the cockpit to help compensate for using a low/realistic FOV, however, you're then putting on your screen the image from the point of view of a driver who is sitting in the back seat or trunk (AKA "boot") if you go real far back (which it sounds like you are since you state you cannot move it any further back).

    In-terms of the second paragraph (eye/camera position AKA seat setting, not FOV), I wish ISI or a third party could create a screen where we have a picture of the car in use with a tiny movable dot which we can move in all 3 dimensions (x, y, z), or at-least the y and z directions (up/down and forward/backward). 3 perfect viewpoints (relative to a 100% flat ground) would be available to switch between - side view, front view, and top view. This would ensure we always have the dot placed exactly where the actual eyeballs of a driver would be placed when sitting in that exact car.

    At the moment, it's very difficult to know just how accurate our driving views are mostly because of A. Who knows how accurate the stock settings of "0,0" of any and all cars are (Tim even admitted that the stock kart settings ["0,0"] are too high for the mass majority of body types) and B. Different FOVs messing with our perception of how far forward or backwards (and possibly height) we are sitting in the car (such as in your case where you felt like you were too close to the dash after lowering your V. FOV, even though adjusting your FOV DOES NOT move the eye/cam AT ALL - the eye/cam longitudinal and vertical movement is what the "seat" setting is for.


    P.S. For the view program/menu screen I explained in the second last paragraph, you should also be able to adjust the angle of tilt of the dot, and the dot should have 3 lines shooting out from it - two lines (one going upwards, one going downwards) based on your chosen V.FOV, and 1 line (maybe a dotted/broken line) going perfectly out in the middle. This middle line would essentially be the exact direction the eyes are facing and would be used to make sure the eye/cam's pitch (known as head pitch in the player.json file) was set properly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2015
  5. coops

    coops Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,680
    Likes Received:
    9
    We need to get onto the TV companies to introduce visor cam or helmet cam with the drivers view so we can record it to get the correct view or maybe this can be introduced into the sim by ISI.
     
  6. redapg

    redapg Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    2,314
    Likes Received:
    1,104
    I think it strongly depends on the modder where he positions the default Eyepoint.
    There are enough videos with helmet cams on youtube.

    I think in most of the sim-cars, the drivers default eyepoints are set much too close to the wheel/dashboard.

    Look at e.g. this video. That's how it should look in my opinion.
    A little more to the left of course, because the cam isn't in the middle of the helmet.

     
  7. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    31
    That view is terrible in-terms of just about everything. Angle (pitch), y-dimension position (vertical), x-dimension position (lateral), and probably slightly off in terms of z-dimension position (longitudinal), although not nearly as off in the "z" as it is in the "x", "y" and angle.
     
  8. McFlex

    McFlex Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    Messages:
    902
    Likes Received:
    269
    1st April joke? It seems you didn't got the point what FOV is :D
     
  9. YoLolo69

    YoLolo69 Registered

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    7
    Even if I'm not sure to agree I perfectly understand the OP point of view. Do we have some Flight Simmers around here? In FSX you can use the virtual 3D cockpit which is in the same 3D world than the world you see through the windshield, so FOV is common. When you switch to the 2D Cockpit you have a 2D picture of the cockpit with all instruments on it which is really helpful during some situation (I often switch between 2D and Virtual 3D cockpit), and the 3D world you see through the windshield can be change thanks to the FOV. Changing the FOV in that case don't affect at all the 2D cockpit (it's a picture). What OP mean here (I guess) is to be able to manage both FOV, 3D cockpit, and 3D World, separately. That could be helpful to adjust the cockpit view, to see E.g. all instruments, side mirrors, etc. even if you use a narrow FOV for the road through the windshield. So it's simulate the natural wild angle of our eyes for the cockpit, mixed with the natural narrow view of the road in front of view, best of both worlds. I find the idea interesting, even if I''m pretty sure they will never implement such "trick" as it's too far from reality.
     
  10. redapg

    redapg Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    2,314
    Likes Received:
    1,104
    It's a question of what you want.
    I prefer an, as close as possible, realistic eyepoint in cockpitview.
     
  11. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    31
    Exactly, and that video is not realistic
     
  12. Promag

    Promag Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    13
    this view, as far as distance, would work if your nose was pressed against video monitor lol
     
  13. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    31
    i dont think the distance (z-axis) is too much of an issue there. It's probably within a few inches of his eyeballs in terms of the z-axis. A couple inches too far forwards or backwards on the z-axis doesn't make a huge difference in the oversll view/perspective in my opionion, but the y-axis, x-axis, and up-and-down pitch/angle look really off.

    That video is so off in the y-axis, x-axis and pitch angle that it looks like the view/perspective from the eyes of a person who is 8 feet tall, with his head pressed against the roof, with his eyes looking/pointing downwards towards the ground 10 feet in front, with his head shifted to the right relative to the rest of his body.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2015
  14. redapg

    redapg Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    2,314
    Likes Received:
    1,104
    Sorry but i have to ask... do you have a driving licence and have ever driven a real car on a real road?
    I don't think so.

    I stop posting here now, because it makes 0 sense.
     
  15. Promag

    Promag Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    13
    I personally am about to celebrate 36 years of driving behind people that have never driven a real car on a real road.;)
     
  16. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    31
    Yes I do/have.
     
  17. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,365
    Likes Received:
    5,233
    redapg already said it should be "A little more to the left of course, because the cam isn't in the middle of the helmet."

    As for height, it's obviously very close to the right height - you can see that in the mirror (the camera's stuck on his helmet at eye-height, so aside from the changes from leaning his head it's spot-on).

    Pitch is definitely wrong because the centre of the screen is pointing barely above the top of the steering wheel which no one does - but of course they set it up that way, no one wants 1/3 of the screen filled with ceiling.

    However, even getting the seat position perfect is only good for those using real FOV, or more accurately where the FOV matches the screen setup and position (the video we're talking about could actually be perfect (apart from the aforementioned right offset) if your screen is centred below your eyeline and very large/close). If you want to see more of the track and cars around you on a single screen you'll tend to run higher FOV, and then you're filling your screen with ceiling and legs/floor unless you change the seat position.

    The OP has a genuine problem (with not being able to see the cockpit) but is/was looking for the wrong solution. Without having the screen area to get the view more realistic, you just have to compromise the seat position so that you aren't seeing too much or too little of the cockpit with your setup and FOV. There's not really a feature that could deal with this 'wish'. (I think mods can already provide a very large seat movement, so it's more a content issue than rF2)
     
  18. Boyd

    Boyd Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    4
    Bear in mind that cameras can have different fov's compared to the human eye, so headcams and such like are also not always a true representation of what you would actually see sitting in a cockpit.
     
  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,365
    Likes Received:
    5,233
    Well, sort of, but generally a camera has lower FOV than you have in real life. The problem is more that a single screen some distance in front of you provides a much smaller FOV, so the same camera has a much higher FOV and you get the video above. Display that same video on a very large screen and the FOV will look just right.

    If you can't (or don't want to) get your game FOV to match your actual FOV on your screen(s), you have to compromise somehow. Most of us watch TV every day with unrealistically high FOV (and just as well, or you'd basically never see more than one person on the screen) and don't give it a second thought, so while there's only one 'correct' view you can adapt to pretty much anything.
     
  20. filas

    filas Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    1
    That video is example, how lot of peoples make mistake, some simulate on monitor, what would virtual driver see (so after that there are two distances to overcome, one between virtual wheel and virtual eye point, and same gap again between real st. wheel and their eyes (and I dont count, they have gap between monitor/tv and real wheel aswell)). After that, its like driving and sitting on the backseat. Trust me, sometime I dont get it, like they dont want to evolve ( T-cam I dont count comletly), or they dont try tu simulate that they are in car.. But I think one day, they will get what they do bad/ or missing. Sory for my eng.
     

Share This Page