The question is - into which texture? If you put this kind of pre-rendered effects into diffuse texture you would end up with reflections reacting to shadows, which is unrealistic. If you put it in specular map it will be fine (but in this case you need dark car interior on white background pre-rendered into such specular map). You can check out cubemaps I'm providing with my shader pack for rFactor - work pretty well for me: Here's a blurry cubemap on billboard, paired with fresnel reflections: When comes to graphics, then changes in billboard shading / shadowing and blurring of cubemaps are currently on top of my wishlist. I have seen no game do that, although blurring cubemaps is pretty cheap comparing to rendering into them, and you don't need to update blurry cubemap as often as the sharp one (so it comes very cheap actually) and the impact on graphics realism can be huge. I guess most gamers don't really notice if things reflected in objects are actual environment. It's enough for them if object is "shiny". That's why most game developers just put any cubemap on object and leave it at that. A game with blurry cubemaps could step ahead of competition if artists would take proper advantage of this rather simple technology Note that you could also use blurry cubemap to approximate ambient lighting. Ok, but this is off topic allready
Everytime I do a pre-render file the file ouput is a multilayer PSD with color diff, AO, illumination, normals, spec reflections, UVA. So, of course, I use those layers (after a little pit stop on PS...) on their own proper channel. Diffuse goes into diffuse...and spec reflections goes into speculars. Honestly, at this moment we can't use the term "realistic", "unrealistic"...as we have a lot of lacks into the GFX..so I'm interested in a good looking car VS a theoric realism that do not work properly at this time.
Eh...I know your stunning work with rF1. I never followed it too much but I saw beautiful stuff coming out from this project... I will try for sure!!!
I meant that game engine could do that If it doesn't then it doesn't and we only have constant ambient color.
I´ve learned more reading you two in this thread than asking for a year. I apreciate this information. Thanks.
Yeah, it makes me wonder sometimes why people don't see that, for example, plastic is also reflecting environment, until someone points that out. Or why are people so excited when sunset in game looks like somebody just dropped a nuke EDIT: Ok, nevermind. Let's not create too much off-topic here.
Actually I think that bit is important and not just modders. What most people think something looks like is not necessarily what it does look like. Perceptions can limit you and it's worth it re-evaluating them from time to time.
Challenge is that you need different cube maps for different surfaces/materials, but well, rFactor2 doesn't seem to support that or then it is a bug or unfinished feature. You get the same environmental reflection cube everywhere.
For in car's, that's not a hard thing to do. I see your point, but you can obviously create an in-car cube map for interior things. That doesnt help in some areas that we could use other cubes. I wish you could however change the blur factor of the cube based on each objects material properties, You wouldn't thing that that would be that hard to code. Unfotunately cube maps are here to stay. real time reflection rendering is still a ways off im affraid.
Johannes, can't you tone down (or exaggerate) cube map "reflectivity" through the brightness of the alpha channel (given that the shader is set up as such)? I managed to do so with the shader I used for the glass windows at Fuji. Doesn't that work anymore since the last update?
Are you guys using "Bump Cube Specular Map Add Alpga Reflext T1 lerp T2 Vertex Alpha" Shader on the car body? And everything else? Just T1 ? Like windshield and Badges?
If work, it is only bias. But it doesn't blur cubemap which makes impossible to get reflection from matte materials. Yesterday we talked about in-car cubemap. using dynamic cubemap is useless because car inside reflects it self and ext environment only through windows. Would be great feature to mix static cubemap (car interior) with dynamic one for example using alpha channel to mask it. It would cost nothing and effect would be more realistic. it would require only creating static cubemap from center of car interior with windows masked on Alpha channel.
Or better yet - a set of small cubemaps for various elements of the car. You only need small ones, because they would be blurry anyway. A set of 16x16 cubemaps prerendered for various locations in cockpit would be just fine. Although some elements, like dashboard, are too wide and too close to objects they would need to reflect. Cubemaps are only good when reflected objects are far enough comparing to reflecting object's size.
Small cubemaps for blurred materials - OK. But I can imagine glossy materials like gauge covers (IMHO)
After thinkin about this for a minute, I realized that for interior objects, a interior specific cube map would be kind of retarded..because as the car rotates, you would see the interior of the car rotating in the reflection. The inside of the car however, should be static because it rotates along with whatever object you are looking at in the cockpit. In this case, the reflections of the car should be pre-rendered and placed on the diffuse texture. You could then use an alpha reflect material and let the cube map only be reflected where the windows appear on the diffuse texture. Does that make any sense to anyone? I think it would provide a pretty realistic effect.
This is exactely what I'm doing and I think it's correct. I've tried many times to let cubemaps the total control of the reflection effect inside cockpit (90% opaque/aniso black material), but it looks 80% wrong as you said. There are visible cube rotations all the time even though on those surfaces that are completely immersed into the occluded area of the cockpit, plus - as already said - actual reflection effect do not allow to get proper chrome reflections for interiors..and we do not have anisotropic reflectors effect for plastics and/or brushed metals...so a pre-rendered stuff looks far better, with a little range of cubemap reflection by the alpha, especially for the top side of the interior objects. If you take look at the actual ISI stock content they're using pre-rendered stuff (or painted works) as well. It's nice searching all the time the most realistic way to do the job, but we're not working for off-line renders (where we've total access to every kind of material and a proper GI engine)...so, this is what we can do with actual shaders. There is no need to waste a life searching for perfection...not at this beta stage.
Yes, these interior cubes would have to be supported by shader, so they are rotated with car. Otherwise it makes no sense. Pre-rendering reflections into texture is a good way in case you know eye location, and you pretty much know it when comes to cockpit view. That's exactly what is shown in the Corvette cockpit screenshot I posted on previous page In case you don't know eye location - you need that extra cubemap and a shader that will rotate it with object and blend it on top of environment cubemap. True. But such "research" helps understand a lot of things, and the more things you understand, the more things you will see missing from game engine and find a nice workaround just to add some more realism. Just like reflections pre-rendered into texture as a mask for cubemap Otherwise we would all be happy with Bump Spec Map T1 shaders on steering wheels and dashboards
Hi, i have a question, i have my cars materials working as i like (reflection, shaders), BUT, the colors apear over saturated! i desaturated they but when the sun hits plenty they "explode", happen me a lot with the reds. Here an image. It happen with all colors, a dark blue looks like a almost light blue, the yellows and the reds directly "explodes", help please! edit: i use "Bump Cube Specular Map Add Alpha Reflect T1 lerp T2 Vertex" with dark grey alpha channel in the .dds file for car body, wich is the thing i care.
I have found to you need to use pretty de-saturated colors to avoid color burn. But well, these of course matter of taste... That Ferrari doesn't look bad to me.
