Can Rfactor2 cope with loading a large map like gta4 ?

Discussion in 'Track Modding' started by Skynet, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,720
    Likes Received:
    45
    I stick to C++. Things are easy enough and I like to put a bit of assembler here and there.

    And I don't like the idea to of being bound to some company's framework. Programming languages and compilers should be common value but we have one corporation with Java, another with C# and another with Objective C. More and more it feels like corporations are trying to pull programmers to their side. If they succeed in that, who's to stop them telling us what platforms to develop for?

    For example - we didn't get C# on Playstation 3 and Nintendo Wii because of competition with XBox 360. So much for multi-platform framework.
     
  2. Bink

    Bink Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    523
    Likes Received:
    2
    ..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2013
  3. osella

    osella Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    26
    Sorry if I hijack your thread but yesterday I found this:



    It's called City Car Driving, its not a racing simulat but a driving simulator.
    It's incredibly fun if you want to just a have calm ride around a city, much better than TDU for example. Even surprisingly good support of wheels.

    Anyway, the thing is it has a large city which would be fun in rfactor too and I think getting approval from creators for conversion could be easier here than from Rockstar because its smaller team.
     
  4. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,720
    Likes Received:
    45
    I really don't think you could get permission to convert anything more than a 10-20% of a city and 2-3 cars, but within these limitations it could be possible.

    Exposure of their product as a free mod for rF2 could work in their favor.

    But having entire city converted would work against them, since people wouldn't have to buy their product in order to have a go (except for the traffic and other stuff). Smaller teams need to make a living aswell.

    I'd rather buy their simulator than drive a conversion in rF2, because it's so much better with all traffic working. And besides - you can see they've put a lot of heart into their product. It's 3 leagues better than some c***p I bought last year:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2012
  5. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    38
    City Driving Simulator appears to be very interesting, I have always liked sims like that. I am just afraid that the actual driving physics are so horrible that you can't get any fun out of it... But I don't know that without testing.

    Generally, I am not that keen on seeing realistic city map in rFactor because you can't simulate traffic and pedestrians. rF would not be my first choice for alone-in-the-world simulator :D However, I have plans for open road tracks which have freeways and smaller roads, that would have AIW that drives around a loop and follows right side of the road. That is the closest you can get. But it works much better in some nature location than in city.
     
  6. osella

    osella Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    26
    You're right it's probably not even worth the conversion because all we would get by doing so is rf car physics. The traffic is great.

    It is really nice, so far only tried 2 cars but they seem to behave believable maybe except too godly brakes, as I said it's better than TDU in all areas especially the traffic isn't too stupid.
    There is parking tutorial, rolling on steep hill, driving with heavy vans etc.
    Only hardware requirements seem very high, with all settings maxed I often have 30fps with hd7850, more demanding than rf2 for sure.
    I'll definitely buy it and drive it when I don't want to concentrate on racing and some friends can learn traffic driving on it :)

    Johannes: no no, I assure you the driving physics are not horrible, of course its compromised so keyboard users can play it as well but I was surprised by throttle and gearbox reaction - it actually feels VERY much like ordinary street car.

    Ironically it feels more realistic than many street cars mods for rf1 because in those I always have the impression its actually a racecar that just have bad tyres and weak engine.
     
  7. osella

    osella Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    26
    OK after a bit of higher speed driving the car physics really is pure arcade.. but somehow I don't mind it really, if you obey traffic laws its ok
     
  8. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    38
    Thanks osella from comments, now you really got me interested on this :)
     
  9. DmitryRUS

    DmitryRUS Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    47
    in the simulator City Car Driving (also called "3D Instructor") physics very primitive, there is a big target for the study of traffic and development of driving the car (clutch, transmission, gas, brake) that would not drown out the car (useful for beginners driving machine) . There is a huge park additional cars. Developers want to release a map editor areas of each city, but the editor until frozen (I suspect because of the lack of funding). This game is just a cruise ride in single player. Physics rF1-rF2 10,000 times better.

    Yes, it would be good to create rFaktor two large areas with autonomous operation of traffic lights and one-way trip rules. You can create beautiful cards no big cities or motor racing track and organize online cruise. Such is, in LFS S2, but there is more developed because of the embedded software INSIM.

    I doubt that the ISI would do something like that, they aim only motorsports
     
  10. osella

    osella Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    26
    That's good to hear , althought don't have expectations on your own car physics, I doubt there is actual tyre model, there are some carproperties.ini in game files and there aren't many fields lol, don't expect anything remotely close to rfactor but if you drive for maximum passenger comfort (=pretty much the opposite of racing) it won't matter much and traffic really feels believable, plus the town districts are quite large.

    Although I still like the throttle/rpm reaction and slower gear changes which seems accurate for ordinary street car, as I said street cars in rf often feel too "sharp", as if they were toned-down racecars, but that may be simply because there is some input lag in city car driving, hard to say lol.

    I still can't resist comparing to TDU, which was supposed to mix both high speed racing and town cruising, the wheel support in TDU (both 1&2) there was simply terrible, here its definitely better.
     
  11. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,720
    Likes Received:
    45
    Why do you guys start comparing physics? ;)
    Of course there will be no proper physics in such traffic simulation. The car is supposed to react to streering, acceleration, braking and that's all. What is important is how traffic works.

    Besides, we were talking about large environments in rF2, not physics in other games :)
     
  12. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    38
    After having played all sorts of simulators for long time, it is really hard to adjust to non-simulation or arcade environments apart from some exceptions. So one wishes to see at least of some degree proper simulation of driving physics so that it doesn't feel too bad. For example I would have loved 18 WoS Haulin' but eventually the driving physics just killed it to me. It became horrible experience too soon. I can deal with this in game like ArmA2 because there is so much other things to do, but when it comes only down to pure driving... there has to be some beef.

    Or then just something that feels good, even not realistic :D But if City Car Driving is better than some of the SCI truck simulator games, then it is worth to take a look at. I am really keen on seeing the AI traffic, I have heard good things about it!
     
  13. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,720
    Likes Received:
    45
    What I meant io that physics is not the topic of this discussion :)
     
  14. osella

    osella Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    26
    ^It is not, not directly, but it is somehow connected to one related problem here - whether to have large map in a proper simulator with no traffic or not.. now I personally think its not worth the hassle because the streets would feel so liveless in rfactor, even in multiplayer with other human drivers.
    But it can still be worth the work for OP of course.
     
  15. Ryno917

    Ryno917 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    3
    Something else to consider; the physics engine. I don't know how exactly it all works, but I know pCars has physics issues at a certain distance from 0,0,0. Same kind of thing as the old shadow problem; the numbers all get a little less accurate further from centre.
     
  16. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    38
    This is somewhat happening in rF2 as well. I am not sure if physics get affected, but car models get shaky and stuff like gauges go haywire. Shadows do work fine.
     
  17. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,668
    Likes Received:
    48
    Around 230km is longest track I have managed to get to work with rF1, using Bob's track builder to convert GPS data to track and also added thousands of trees to side of the road, or I think it was tens of thousands.

    That was point to point of course.

    It was just test how long tracks can be made in rF1, to actually make scenery to match reality even a bit, it would take years for such long track, I doubt that anyone will be able to that alone and I don't know how tracks could be put to sections to many guys work on object placing etc. Which probably will limit possibilities with long tracks.

    Also I don't know why in rF2 Monaco seems to be killing performance for my machine so badly and it is not even very complex map, I know that for rF1 it had difference if track was left to right or up to down, loading time was many times faster to to other direction which I don't if still matters with rF2 and if in rF2 there are other performance impacts with direction of track, there is and probably will not be BTB for rF2 so I can't make my simple but yet fun tracks anymore with few clicks of mouse which is about all attention span I have for repetative tasks :rolleyes:
     
  18. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,668
    Likes Received:
    48
    If there would be multiple aiw paths possible, then traffic could be kind of solved, of course one could lay out very long and complex aiw to mimic real traffic, but it could never realiably cross the path, but with careful planning there could be illusion for it. AI_only tagged cars with rpm limiter set so low that they don't speed too much would be also needed, but I think doable to some extent.
     
  19. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,038
    Likes Received:
    38
    Biggest problem is that if the AI cars are not having exactly same speeds with each other, they try to begin overtake. This rises a major issue as they have no idea when it is safe to overtake, and so head on collisions happen often (roads that have to way traffic). Of course freeway road would be very easy to do. It might be also possible to change AI behavior from HDV's and talent files. Maybe overtaking can be disabled in most cases.
     
  20. Skynet

    Skynet Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    2
    Why bother with AI in an Open world map at all. My intention was for a city map to be used online with as many people as Rfactor2 or a server will allow. Open world MMO driving/racing Sim is how i would describe the concept.
     

Share This Page