Build 85 Discussion Mk II

Yes, like I said - we miss profiles or a guide. There are G25/G27 profiles in the game, but I guess they need some update :)
I agree that it will be ISI's responsibility when rF2 hits gold. In the meantime we're in the "modders beta", which pretty much means people who know how to handle rFactor.

The only change I did was the one described here: LINK. Works well with my G25.

Here's what I've set in my controller.ini

Off-road multiplier="0.15000" // Temporary test variable to reduce force feedback strength off-road (0.0 = zero FFB, 1.0 = full FFB)
Steering torque filter="20"
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No other changes. Actually, I believe 0.15 is the default value for Off-road multiplier anyway.
 
jubuttib said:
Weird how many people are having problems with the updates. I downloaded the 69->85 update, installed it, downloaded all of the updated rfmods and installed them, then ran rF2 and everything worked without a hitch, even All Cars & Tracks. Guess I was just lucky.
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exact same story here Excellent! no problems, and my g25 is lively and feels great over any surface
AWESOME
 
K Szczech said:
Why do I need to imagine something like that? FFB is configurable in rF2, is it not?
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Why do you often answering me didn't even trying to understand what I want to say?
I answered some one's post, who said, that it is hardware which is responsible for rattling - not software. I can't agree with that, that's why I gave an example with FOV, which should help you to imagine that game shouldn't be designed just for one selected HW device. Is it too hard to understand? Because I have feeling you didn't.

I also pointed that current approach, based on raw forces from "ideal" suspension is incorrect. Or at least not real. Improving it might be the way to fix issue, making FFB more realistic, makes workarounds not needed and statements that it is HW fault not valid.


What is really missing is some guide for the people how to set it right.
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Since FF is physics based , you have only 2 params to set: strength and dumping on non-road materials. You may increase dumping but you still get no correct/realistic wheel behaviour on road and rumbles. Additionally it is only placeholder - it means we may count on some improvements on physics side. So.. even if it help your driving wheel, it is not real solution.

Maybe I'm naive, but I believe, it is better to ask for improvements rather than accepting things as they are and looking for workarounds only.
 
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Just updated and like what I see already. Good job guys.

I did an offline race with 15 F2 and F3 cars. Only two small jitters in a 5 lap race. The environment looks a lot better now and performance was much more steady with everything turned to full, +FXX and HDV. Very pleased with this update.
 
MaXyM said:
Why do you often answering me didn't even trying to understand what I want to say?
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My point was that your example was bad - exaggerated to a point when software is not adjustable at all. Which isn't true in case of rF2 - as I described.

If you're trying to make a point - don't exaggerate. Otherwise expect an answer like that.

MaXyM said:
Maybe I'm naive, but I believe, it is better to ask for improvements rather than accepting things as they are and looking for workarounds only.
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Or you simply misunderstood the topic. No software will work good on all steering wheels on the market because of differences in their FFB mechanism. Big differences. All those steering wheels will have different feel to them and different reactions. It's as simple as that.

You need to adjust software to your hardware yourself or use available predefined profiles. As I stated - the ones currently in rF2 are not good in my opinion and need improvements before gold release.

Unless you put a lot of damping into software and pretend it's allright :) Of course construction of the car and tyres themselves will cause some damping (without going over details here :) ) and it needs to be done well in the software. But it's not like software will produce good results on all FFB devices without adjustments.


So to sum it up:
I do not agree that software should work on all hardware without any actions required from the user. Software should be adjustable so it can work on all hardware.
And rF2 is adjustable.
 
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K Szczech said:
My point was that your example was bad - exaggerated to a point when software is not adjustable at all. Which isn't true in case of rF2 - as I described.

If you're trying to make a point - don't exaggerate.
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Why not - it is common way people do that. If you say "it's hot like a hell" doesn't mean it is really so hot.


K Szczech said:
You need to adjust software to your hardware yourself or use available predefined profiles. As I stated - the ones currently in rF2 are not good in my opinion and need improvements before gold release.
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I believe any one knows that. it is stated a lot of times on this forum. And I'm not arguing about using it or not. You missed the point.
 
K Szczech said:
My point was that your example was bad - exaggerated to a point when software is not adjustable at all. Which isn't true in case of rF2 - as I described.

If you're trying to make a point - don't exaggerate.
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Why not - it is common way people do that. If you say "it's hot like a hell" doesn't men it is really so hot.


K Szczech said:
You need to adjust software to your hardware yourself or use available predefined profiles. As I stated - the ones currently in rF2 are not good in my opinion and need improvements before gold release.
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I believe any one knows that. it is stated a lot of times on this forum. And I'm not arguing about using it or not. You missed the point. If you want to discus lack of documentation, you answering wrong posts.
 
MaXyM said:
IMO it is problem with the software. There are two reasons:
1. rF2 is dedicated for simracing market, not as demo software for single steering wheel. It means it should good experience with using wide range of wheels available on market. Especially for G25/27 which are most popular ones in simracing...
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The "problem" with the software is that it has introduced road surface bumps and unevenness (on some tracks) that were not modeled in the past, at least not in some sims. In GPL for example (my main previous sim) the roads are all uniformlly smooth. So when I was screaming down a straight, with little to no steering input, there was never a hint of FFB dead zone or rattle. I was so happy with my G27. I recomended to to anyone who asked. And then came rF2, specifically the old Spa circuit with all the bumps and dips on the Masta straight. Wow, I couldn't believe my beloved G27 was behaving so violently! Researched and found Logitech support personnel stating it had an intentional built in FFB deadzone which by their determination should not be an issue. And they were right, for that era of track design.

Well now ISI tracks models have evolved to the point where that design flaw is revealed. What you seem to be wishing for is for ISI to devolve back to a flat surface/smooth off-track model so your now inferior wheel will have a smoother feel. Or at least give you the tools to mask the shortcomings of your wheel. Obviously the track models are what they are and will not change. But luckily for you they HAVE provided varibles within the game you can adjust. So you have 2 choices.

1. Stay with your old, now inferior wheel, and work with all the many variables you have at your disposal (within rF2 and the logitech setup) to create a work around you can live with or,

2. Buy a different wheel.

But the bottom line is -- It is not ISI's fault that the G27 can't prooduce the experince you would like to have. This is such an old and worn out debate, it really needs to be put to bed.
 
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Great update, it is all getting shape!

Pros- Everything works smoother and faster and looks better!

Cons- the 1960's cars have no longer working mirrors, they are black
- the mirrors in other cars are extremely overexposured
 
My G27 is terrifically violent on 60's Spa in the F1/2/3 cars. Wouldn't it of been like that anyway? I'd imagine letting go of the wheel at top speed would pretty quickly result in something bad happening as it does here.
 
Ricknau said:
But the bottom line is -- It is not ISI's fault that the G27 can't prooduce the experince you would like to have. This is such an old and wore out debate, it really needs to be put to bed.
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ISI's "fault" is, that FFB generates exaggerated forces (also partialy because of lack of correct loose materials physics). It generates forces which are not present in real life because IRL those forces are dumped by gearing, smearing and power steering. As I said: all problems will be gone, after implementing simulation of real steering systems. Then HW will be not "guilty" any more.
That's why I'm saying that SW is responsible more than HW.
 
I have a G25 and as Ricknau said you have two options:

You can adjust RF2 files to suit

or

Buy a superior wheel.

I have no problems at all with my G25 at present because i accept its old technology and hence am saving for a superior wheel. This is black and white. I dont WANT ISI to dumb down the fantastic feedback to suit my outdated wheel.
 
sg333 said:
I have no problems at all with my G25 at present because i accept its old technology and hence am saving for a superior wheel. This is black and white. I dont WANT ISI to dumb down the fantastic feedback to suit my outdated wheel.
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But this "Fantastic feedback" is not realistic.
I would like to have it more real. If you don't - then ok, but it is another case.
 
I just tried Monaco for the first time (and one of the historic cars for the first time as well) and the framerate was much worse than what I'm used to. I averaged 30fps at the start of the race and it climbed to 50-60fps once everybody spread out after a few laps. Random note: I hated the historic car for the first seven laps, but then I started to understand its appeal.

I then tried the Meganes at Monaco and the framerate was the same (30-60fps). So then I tried the historic cars at Snetterton and everything went back to the normal (for me) framerate of 60fps locked. So I'm guessing that Monaco just needs an update, which should be in the forthcoming historic patch.

Also, the Megane AI apparently doesn't like Monaco...

rF2monacoAI.gif


And I'm looking forward to testing the Fanatec wheel that should be arriving soon. My G27 went nuts again with the fresh install of Build 85 so I had to adjust the steering torque filter back to 4 like I had it in previous builds. I was hoping that ISI would have finally solved the aggressive vibrations, but apparently not yet.
 
MaXyM said:
But this "Fantastic feedback" is not realistic.
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Have you driven a car before? A real one? It doesn't have to be a race car just a car. If you have you would have noticed, unless you are completely numb from your forehead down, that you get feedback from the car through your entire body. Pressing the brake you are getting feedback from the pedal, you can feel the weight transfer. So on and so on. Anyways I'm done explaining this very simple concept or explaining anything to morons like yourself around here.


Realistic FFB would be crap FFB. Plain and simple. Take care Loser.
 
OK first impressions after a quick 30minute blast:

1) Performance increased all over, I can now have shadows on Medium, probably be able to tweak a bit more and get them on High. Had to run Low in B69

2) G25 works perfectly fine with no changes to settings, dunno what all the fuss is about....and Yes I've been on the grass and curbs!

3) Found a bug with the Tire Wear mode that was present in B69 (posted in bugs forum)

4) Having Replays ON still causes a drop of 10FPS for me, having to keep them turned off which is a shame (unless I lower settings but I dont wanna do that!)

5) 5.1 Surround Sound still needs work, I wanna hear cars on the right of me have more volume on the right hand speakers...plus all other sounds more prominent in each speaker dependant on where the sound is being created from etc etc etc

6) and this is the biggest flaw for me: Majorly disappointed I have to run All Cars & Tracks to race a Mod on any track, as an Offline Racer I dont want to have to spend time faffing about creating RFMODS or whatever. I want to load the GT and I want to race them on every track I have installed....NOT to have to use the All Tracks/Mods RFM which is a pain. PLEASE do something about this during Beta, yes I know more changes are coming but this simply has to be changed...its like you're restricting us to use certain mods on certain tracks which is wrong, give us the choice! Unless I have this wrong somehow then please inform me!!

7) HDR seems a bit more bright during the midday as it did in B69, used as comparison as I like to race random times and thats what loaded up.

Thats all for now, got an online race tonight and will race Offline some more and report back later on with more nonsense!
 
jubuttib said:
They're not that comparable really. The Megane is a silhouette racer with a full on tube chassis and just a fiberglass body on top of it to keep up appearances, whereas GT cars need to actually share parts with the base car. Looking the specs the Megane is almost 300 kg lighter than the GT1 GT-R, GT1 cars are limited to 1250 kg whereas the Megane is quoted here as being 980 kg

About the only thing the GT1 car has on the Megane (newest, don't know the specs for the one in the game) is power, around 200 bhp more (400->600).
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Of course they are but that is not what I point here. What I meant is I can only compare the Gts to Meganes in rF2 as the only other cars available are the open weelers ;)
Anyway, are the gts too loose or not?
 
RafBR said:
Of course they are but that is not what I point here. What I meant is I can only compare the Gts to Meganes in rF2 as the only other cars available are the open weelers ;)
Anyway, are the gts too loose or not?
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The OWers seem to have improved grip, but the quick "spin" I did in the GT suggests that a physics update wasn't what it received.
 
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