BRM P83 1966 w.i.p - beginner need some help

Discussion in 'Car Modding' started by Hedlund_90, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    Ahz! Don't you think could be better to search for some good tutorial for rFactor1 before proceed? :p Don't ask me where...because I dunno...but I guess you can find a lot of resources in the main forum.

    I mean...if you proceed like this is like you're going in a desert without water...and I think you need to understand what you're doing and WHY you're doing. If you just put the car in the showroom, without understand what you're really doing...I guess you do not learn too much...because is more like a mechanical sequence of operations without trial & error. I know is nice to see your car into the showroom ASAP...but I suggest you to use this stage of development to understand how the rFactor vehicle structure works.

    Unfortunately, the ISI tutorial is a bit weird for this step...as it suggest you to follow a step by step, into different car parts (and another tutorial for tires), using different main materials...and the .max file do not have materials applied at all...:/

    BTW...this part is a bit tricky (especially if you have no idea how to work with materials) so now I can't help you (I need a bit of time to write it down), but I'll try to write down a little tut for tomorrow...if I get the time.

    Did you remember the extra amount of patience?...:)
     
  2. Hedlund_90

    Hedlund_90 Registered

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    You are probably right. I will see what I can find. But what kind of tutorials am I searching for? Texturing cars?

    Maybe :rolleyes:
     
  3. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    I don't know if this is any help, but this is very old stuff from rF1, most still applies to rF2, just something I have stashed away that at least I can't no longer find, stuff from US pits, original race sim central etc.
    http://jtbo.pp.fi/tiedostot/rfactor/info_oldRSC_USPITS_etc.zip

    For me that was lot of use back then.

    At Year 2006 I started to make tutorial (what a surprise that real life got into way), Kantti mod was part of it, it might have some use as it is so simple that one is not overwhelmed with stuff and it might be easier to spot what is going on, this includes max file too, but textures are in .mas file and will be needed to extract from there, well, most of them at least from my memory. Also material settings might not be perfectly good, but with those things did work.
    http://jtbo.pp.fi/tiedostot/rfactor/kantti_tutorial.zip

    However, I'm not sure if that will help as much with rF2 as there are some differences, but .gen file might be useful to look at, there is no need for many parts in that file and with max file you can tell what part is which etc.

    For what is gmat, maybe this quick explanation will help:
    View attachment 3363
    This is probably what you have, note Standard circled in red, that is your standard material

    For rfactor that needs to be changed to Multi/Subobject like here:
    View attachment 3364

    gmat refers to gmotor material, you can see how I have gmat materials on those slots and how at the bottom there are standard materials:
    View attachment 3365

    By clicking that standard slot from previous image, you enter to that slot's material properties, from there you click standard that was shown at first image and you get this kind of dialog, where you need to choose gmotor material:
    View attachment 3366

    What material settings to choose, I'm all ears what Tuttle has to say, because I really don't know how to set them so that car looks nice, I know that with T1 one gets easiest way to get car into game as only one texture is needed, but it looks bad.

    If your material editor uses modern style, that does not work with gmotor material plugin, but I can't now remember where one had to change to use traditional material editor, it was easy to find place that I seem not able to find now :p
     
  4. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    A full tutorial is happening here!
    Great thread!
     
  5. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    I think is a bit too early to talk about the Bodycar paintings, as it is not just about shaders

    - Shader proprierties and settings. (alpha, fresnels, cubemaps, envmaps, etc...)
    - Proper UVA unrwapping
    - Normal issue to solve in the actual build
    - AO and shading baking (and eventually pre-rendered materials)
    - Texture/Liveries works in Photoshop
    - Bump/Specular map

    If Hedlund would like to stay alive at this stage...I guess he've just to proceed with very very very little steps, working a lot with trial and error to understand how all this stuff is working....

    ...and honestly I dunno if I get the time to write tutorials for every modding step and I'm going to be pretty busy in the near future. You know...it's a HUGE amount of stuff, especially AFTER the modeling process, and many of those informations are still a mystery for many of us (especially tire models).. But I'm fighting with ARBs too...jeeeezuz!

    I can just try to help a bit when I can..:)

    PS: my reference target for the body reflection is the BT20...but unfortunately we do not have a sample to see the ISI standard. I guess I'm fighting with reflections as you Jtbo...:)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2012
  6. Hedlund_90

    Hedlund_90 Registered

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    Yes that's probably the best way. Now you've confused me with "UVA unwrapping" and "AO shading bakings" stuff here ;)

    So I should finish my model before starting with all this huge amount of stuff. I just want to see the car in game. First of all in the showroom, to see how it looks. And later, isn't it possible to drive it on track without proper textures? That's what I would prefer, before start mess around with textures. Just drive it as it looks in 3ds max... or something.

    I understand you have other things to do. If you find any time to help me with this it's really appreciated.
     
  7. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    You can search something about shaders and materials, textures and basics about car mapping.

    BTW...I'll try to get you a little .max file with some examples ASAP.
     
  8. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    Yes you can. You can use just a CubeMapT1 (a basic shader with one .DDS + 1 cubemap) with a monocolor and a flat alpha channel for the reflection.

    Imho this is the best way for you...at this stage. :)
     
  9. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    HDR OFF I got my cube map working and in rF1 I had 40 cube blend, similar result seems to come with 5% blend in rF2, however it is different at different tracks.

    Reflections can wait :D

    I would recommend for Hedlund to go with those Kantti materials, they were very simple and should not cause too much of issues, but I must warn that they might not be quite perfectly well set.

    Also kantti skin shows how simple method can give car some paint to just get model to game first as even that can be quite hair pulling without indeed some mysterious material settings that we can't be sure if it is software or user that is in error (windows for example).

    Physics are then own battle alltogether, that is why it is better, imo, to use rTrainer as a base, just changing line pointing to body gmt from .gen file, then adding another searchpath that is for folder that has texture file and start from there, rfm etc could come later, when export process and problems with single object are won.

    After that step car's new body should be visible when at track, there can be then numerous problems, but I would recommend dealing them later as they come.

    Full tutorial is very, very big indeed, I managed to use close to 8 pages for just creating folder structure and making mod to be shown as new mod, for rF1 which it was perhaps bit shorter process, but for exporting stage I guess 32 pages might be needed for all material and modelling tips etc, then physics would be several hundreds of pages for somewhat decent quality.

    TGM files alone are over 3000 lines, luckily there are only around 700 lines that one needs to touch, not even all of those, but as I wrote some small things about tire material settings at nodes section, post became so long, that I doubt anyone has survived reading it trough

    But as I have read that ISI has aim to made modding available for wider audience and there will be such guides that allow more people to enter into modding, it might be bit futile to make such thorough documents at this stage and there is also a lot that we don't know.

    But indeed, we do what we can to help.

    For anyone wanting daily does of amusement, here is link to tutorial document I started when rF1 was new, I have probably forgotten most of that during the years travelling at work instead of modding, but maybe someone get some ideas from there (I have no idea why I did name it 1.0):
    http://jtbo.pp.fi/tiedostot/rfactor/car_tutorial_v1.0_not_ready.pdf

    edit: For texture, image file with single color will do just fine for starters, that is almost what I still do as it is my limit with texture painting :p

    With cubeT1, isn't it needed to get some isi common.mas extracted and car_cube or similar from there? That was what I remember from rF1? Reason I used T1 was because at the beginning I could not find cube map texture :eek:
     
  10. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    Or maybe you can use this one for the bodycar (just copy these settings for your bodycar shader);

    View attachment 3368

    For the first stage (color) you can use a little .dds (with alpha) with your main car color (black, blue, green...what you like most)
    For the second stage (damage) you can use the same (is the damage file picture but you don't need it for now)
    For the third (specular) you can use a mid gray texture (another placeholder .dds for the specular)
    For the fourth stage (bump) you can use another placeholder (like a flat normal map)
    For the fifth stage (cubemap) you can use the CAR_CUBE_DX9.DDS you find in your maps folder.

    These are the cubemap settings you can use as a temporary solution:

    View attachment 3369

    To export your texture from photoshop you need a valid PS installation and the nVidia DDS plugin. :)
     
  11. Hedlund_90

    Hedlund_90 Registered

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    I can't see your attachments, they are "invalid".

    I have PS and I think I have the DDS plugin, I've used it for richard burns rally skins, years ago ;)
     
  12. Mauro

    Mauro Registered

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  13. Hedlund_90

    Hedlund_90 Registered

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    Hi again. I've been too busy too read any tutorials yet. But tonight I thought I maybe could get the car to show up in showroom :)

    Somehow I managed to get trough that material editor thing in ISI tutorial. I apply the texture to my main body and nose, and deleted all other parts. I set up GMT exporter as I'm told to and export my model to vehicles/BRM_P83/maps folder.

    Next stage is where I'm not sure what to do... According to tutorial I'm supposed to open BRM_P83_spinner.gen and delete everything under Actor=VEHICLE line.... Problem is I have already deleted everything in this file and pasted everything from my BRM_P83.gen file. So there is no line like that?

    I started up devmode anyway. Game freezes when trying to view my car in showroom and I get this message:
    [​IMG]
    Of course I had expected something to be wrong.

    So is the spinner.gen file wrong? Maybe I missunderstood Tuttles guide earlier :rolleyes:
     
  14. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    Wait...I said you've to put your car instances for both .gen and spinner.gen. If you've both files empty you get issues just because the game (and showroom) has no mesh to load at all...:)

    So, first of all you've to delete the rtrainer stuff from your .gen file (I guess this is done), then you've to compile both .gen file with your first exported parts, like the body and tires.

    If you need some help on how to compile your .gen files you can open the original rtrainer spinner...Keep the same structure but delete everything except those parts you can export for the showroom. Of course you've to rename .gmt names into .gen with your real istance names.

    Pay attention to the brace structure...:)

    As already said I can't say you exactly how to write your .gen because I don't know which parts you are exporting and how you're naming your istances...and those files needs continous updates for every part you export/add to the spinner and the general file. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2012
  15. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    What is name of you main body gmt file?

    Do you see that filename in your .gen files?

    For example my car starts like this from SLOT instance:

    Instance=SLOT<ID>
    {
    Moveable=True
    //------------------------------------MAX CAR SETTINGS---------------------------------------------
    <MAX> MeshFile=V300_carbody_max.gmt CollTarget=False HATTarget=False LODIn=(0.0) LODOut=(10000.0) ShadowReceiver=True
    Actor=VEHICLE

    I think that you need all those levels, MAX LOW MED HIGH, but at least level that you are using for graphic details in your options. All can use same settings and lod 0 to 10000 is fine for now.

    But another possibility is that if your searchpaths don't include .mas file or if game can't find mesh file mentioned.

    My searchpaths are like this:
    SearchPath=<VEHDIR>
    SearchPath=<VEHDIR>\volvo300\RHD\mas
    SearchPath=<VEHDIR>\volvo300\RHD\
    //MASFile=volvo300\RHD\Volvo.mas
    MASFile=cmaps.mas

    I have commented .mas file out as I use mas folder now instead, but it needs to be in searchpath.

    For spinner gen I have this:
    Instance=SLOT<ID>
    {
    Moveable=True
    MeshFile=V300_carbody_spin.gmt CollTarget=False HATTarget=False LODIn=(0.0) LODOut=(300.0) ShadowCaster=(Dynamic, Solid, 256, 256) Reflect=True
    Actor=VEHICLE

    Don't know what else it could be, for some reason game does not find mesh file.

    From laucher, you can go to advanced tab and developer cli window type trace=4, that will log exact error into rf2data\moddev\userdata\logs hopefully I got path right as I typed this from my memory, however trace file will show you what exactly wen't wrong.
     
  16. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    I guess the problem is just about missing vehicle structure in .gen files...

    This is what I suggest you in the old post:

    ;)
     
  17. Hedlund_90

    Hedlund_90 Registered

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    Ok I understand. I have to add instances for every part I add to game :)

    So now I want to get two parts in game. I have exported this 2 files to maps folder:

    BRM_P83_body.gmt
    BRM_P83_nose.gmt


    So in spinner.gen I added an instance for each part:

    View attachment 3408

    Now I get an error saying:

    [​IMG]

    It seem to be only the body that fails now? I don't get any error about the nose. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong now ;)
     
  18. Hedlund_90

    Hedlund_90 Registered

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    The lines in spinner.gen is copied from rtrainer spinner.gen and I have only replaced the names.

    I have no idea why the "actor=vehicle" is included, it's not mentioned in the tutorial, but it's there in rtrainer file so maybe it should be?
     
  19. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    I see you named the 2 istance like this:

    BRM_P83_body.gmt
    BRM_P83_nose.gmt

    But the error you get is pointing to a different istance name; BRM_P83_nose_body.gmt

    So now you've to check if your istance is called BRM_P83_nose_body.gmt or BRM_P83_nose.gmt...


    I guess is named BRM_P83_nose.gmt and your spinner is calling for a nonexistent file. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2012
  20. Hedlund_90

    Hedlund_90 Registered

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    Haha... i know i was tired, but if i made a simple mistake like that then i must have been REALLY tired. well, i will fix that when i get home and have slept a couple of hours. i hope for no more errors
     

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