Hello Guys, I’m new here in rf2 and I have a question regarding braking influence into the steering when you brake into a curve? Do you know maybe why the most cars in rf2 have a totally different feeling when you braking into a curve, the steering wheel you could feel a extrem force back to the center? I can not feel this on ACC, AC or AMS2. And if you brake on a street sports car, you also have no influence into your steering wheel. I don’t talk about the wheel centring which you could set by your preferences! Fyi…..I Drive with a Simucube 2 pro wheelbase. I‘m looking forward to your opinions. Thanks, Fred
rF2 is not like other sims. You will get different ffb due to how the physics are calculated/integrated. There is one car, the Mercedes GT3, that has a unique ffb profile. For whatever reason it behaves differently than other DLC content. And for clarity's sake, when experiencing issues like this, ensure you test with default S397 cars & tracks so we can eliminate potential modding problems.(except the MERC that is... )
Yes I know that rf2 are different to other sim’s and I like it very much. I‘m just thinking about this braking effect, if this is a setting problem or not….!? Of course I‘m using only S397 cars and tracks
I'm not an expert, this is just a layman interpretation (which is a bit complicated to explain, but pretty simply once you get it). Because of the way a cars steering geometry is set up (specifically the angle of the "king pin" - or the angle of the axis about which a wheel turns left and right), a "castor" effect is created. Basically, when a wheel is turned, a lateral force is applied to the tyre just behind the middle of the tyre contact patch (called pneumatic trial), this acts to straighten up the wheel. Over a certain angle this force can reverse, but most of the time this is a straightening force. So, depending on steering geometry, tyres naturally want to straighten up and bring the steering wheel back to the centre (called self aligning torque). Onto the braking part... tyres need a load on them that presses them into the road surface to generate grip. The more load that is on a tyre, the more grip it has (up until a point). So when you brake into a corner, weight (or specifically load) tranfers to the front tyres giving them more grip. Because the tyres naturally want to self align, the more grip they have, the stronger the self aligning force (hense a stronger force feedback aligning force under breaking). I hope this is somewhat accurate and I have not led you astray. The way that rF2 behaves under braking is one of the two reasons I got into the sim over the others - under brakes, steering loads up and a car rotates - it's quite simply and I don't really understand why the other sims don't do a great job of it. The other reason is how cars in rF2 behave under acceleration.
What I've found with rf2 is that the steering gets heavier braking into corners which seems very realistic to me and then gets lighter if you start loosing grip. To me rf2 is the only sim that gives any sensation of braking, it's one reason why rf2 is my favourite sim. What I have found is if you have ffb set too high it will mask these effects which means you have less control. I think a lot of people have their ffb set too high.
I find that the added braking forces help to convey a sense of intensity during braking for corners, one of my favorite things about rF2 ffb. There is a parameter in the (Unique named) controller file, that can influence the force level of that effect. I don't recall the exact line but, I experimented with it some time ago. Personally, I see this as an enhancement to ffb, not necessarily "realistic" but, not many ffb-effects are. If it adds to the immersion, I think it's worthwhile but, I also think it could be offered as an option within an advanced section of the ffb-settings menu. To clarify, I don't think it's fair to assume that all players want all possible ffb-effects included in the default setup but, I also don't think it's fair to remove additional ffb-effects / tuning options because some players insist on simplifying all things ffb-related. There is a way to satisfy both camps, as well as players in-between; Basic FFB settings / Advanced FFB settings.
Am I the only to find this effect exagerated? I can totally understand the explanations above and they make sense for old cars, you turn the wheel under braking, it becomes heavier, you lock up, it becomes lighter. But for me, they can't be perfectly valid when talking about modern cars with power steering and ABS.
Powersteering is not modeled in RF2, ABS probably increase the effect preventing or limiting tire slip thus maximizing grip at any given time. You have a very strong wheel for what I understand, maybe is your hardware that tuned a bit on the high side. From memory powersteering cars give something around 10 NM and the wheel, if your wheel is one of those 20 NM monsters, crank down the power.
Another thing to remember is that old car have much more relaxed steering ratio, this act as a lever, compensating the lack of power assist. Modern car with their tight steering ratio and stiff suspensions would feel weight transfer even more without assists.
Remember also that multiple settings can be modified in the controller.json file: "Force Feedback":{ "Brake effects on steer axis":1, "Brake effects on steer axis#":"0 = Brake effects on brake axis, 1 = brake effects on steering axis.", "Brake effects strength":-10000, "Brake effects strength#":"-10000 to +10000, applies to all brake effects (force, vibration, static spring, etc?)", "Brake spring coefficient":0.4, "Brake spring coefficient#":"Static spring effect rate (-1.0 to 1.0)", "Brake spring saturation":0.2, "Brake spring saturation#":"Static spring effect peak force (0.0 to 1.0)",
That´s where I corrected my own kerb rumbling force. I feel it should be much stronger than the default one, making it even hard to maintain direction in some kerbs/pianos. Edit: Here: "Rumble strip magnitude":0.1, "Rumble strip magnitude#":"How strong the canned rumble strip rumble is. Range 0.0 to 1.0, 0.0 disables effect.", "Rumble strip pull factor":0, "Rumble strip pull factor#":"How strongly wheel pulls right\/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested range: -1.5 to 1.5.", "Rumble strip update thresh":0.05, "Rumble strip update thresh#":"Amount of change required to update rumble strip effect (0.0 - 1.0)", "Rumble strip wave type":0, "Rumble strip wave type#":"Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.",
Maybe also influences the "3D object in particular" @atomed thinks of any of the kerbs of Buenos Aires
Yeah, I probably don't feel these things being "extreme" due to using T300 motor. With servos that much powerful like direct drives, overpowering steering feedback forces becomes very realistic issue. In my mind FFB multiplication setting in options is the powersteering Although of course not absolutely true, because there are different types of powersteering, also it can change relatively to speed of a car... I remember the physics expert GamerMuscle making a lot of fuss about ACC ffb a few years ago, perhaps of Nismo GT3, don't remember exactly. In his mind car should always get increase of steering feedback force with braking applied. But in case car has large mechanical+pneumatic trail in neutral state, stiff tires, more front weight distribution, compliant for dive, slower steering ratio, more powersteering and more stufff.... these dynamics can change a lot, and various ways of how cars feel can change a lot. To me that is beauty of simulation. And if someone wrongfully tries to pinch cars dynamics in a frame of narrow or even plain wrong perception of reality should be confronted in a way of respectful, meaningful discussion. I actually don't think that bold forces under braking is specifically rF2 thing, a car with no FFB increase at braking could probably be modeled and in realistic way.
First of all I would like to thank‘s for all your answers and I think everyone has really good thoughts on it. I also think that older cars without power steering have more of an impact on the steering when braking into a curve than modern ones with power steering. Ok unfortunately I have never driven a GT3 car on the race track. But if I brake a sporty road car hard into a curve for example, I don't notice any influence on the steering at all, no restoring force. Ok, I can imagine a GT3 car with slick and hard chassis might have more influence on the steering, but is that so much more. I'm also a huge fan of rf2 and how the cars drive, it’s my favourite ones. But you still have to say that the other simulations are not beginners either and you hardly feel this effect at all with modern cars. Did they do everything wrong?
Yes, with millimetric accuracy It's trial and error but once you get it right it's totally worth it. I mean not only this setting, but.others you'll find there.
Lol, that's a fine art I'm still trying to understand too Maybe you can start disabling that first setting I posted: "Brake effects on steer axis":0,
