BRAKE issues in the New GT3

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lavinia, Feb 9, 2023.

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  1. Lavinia

    Lavinia Registered

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    Someone tell me about brake on the GT3?

    I compared the AMG GT3 and M6 GT3 with ABS off and the default ABS3. Both are v3.53 and were shot on the same track, same temperature, same track surface temperature, same time and same weather conditions. The drivers are the same and the equipment used is exactly the same.
    Is it true that these are cars with BOP applied - without ABS the M6 also locks up as it is braking to a standstill, but in normal driving it does not lock up at all. The AMG, on the other hand, locks up even with ABS at maximum. I've already taken some countermeasures, like reducing the brake pressure, but even when I drop it to 80% it still locks up at the big braking points. the AMG is clearly not as fast as the M6, and most importantly, the tyre life is completely different. (I've spent over 12 hours testing over the last two days trying to get the AMGs to work, but it didn't help!)
    I honestly can't believe you guys actually tested them. The new tyres are very good and I certainly wanted this. However, when I drive an AMG, the front tyre dies quickly because it locks up no matter how you drive it. I am not enjoying the new tyres at all. I don't think this kind of BOP is possible at all.
    I have never actually driven a GT3, but those videos are all over the internet ocean. Here is one video from there.

    Do you really think, after watching this, that the ABS of the GT3 in this game is correct? In a real car, the ABS doesn't even work on hairpins where you're slowing down to 60 km/h!
    I'm tired of hearing about my rig and those settings, so please don't. Several people besides me have confirmed this problem.
    I would like to hear what Studio397 has to say. Best regards.

    (I translated it at DeepL, so sorry if it's in strange English.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2023
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  2. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Just to be clear, ABS should be set to OFF in the menus and controlled only by the incar settings.
     
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  3. Lavinia

    Lavinia Registered

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    I know about that, of course. Assist ABS is turned off and I have made sure that the ABS is adjusted in the car settings.
     
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  4. Lavinia

    Lavinia Registered

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    However, when the same test was just conducted with the assisted ABS on high, the results and the feedback received were not much different at all.
     
  5. Miquel Ramos

    Miquel Ramos Registered

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    Just I was yesterday doing a base setup on Spa for AMG that I shared. This is the most difficult car of 5 that I tried to get a acceptable lap time. It's true, car tends to lock front tyres, but base setup is very very bad. Finally, as I work with ABS 8 and with the changes I did, braking was ok, not perfect but I couldn't try more, need more time.
    As I said yesterday in the Discord if you put new cars whith some shit setup, you get this kind of feedback from users. A big issue!
    Same that a new user that his steering wheel don't work in his first install, some of them could send the game to the trash
     
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  6. Lavinia

    Lavinia Registered

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    Hello. Thanks for the replies. If you can, it would be even more appreciated if you read the text carefully before replying.
    You are not the only one who has been waited for the GT3 update. Please don't think that you are the only one who tried different things. Even I can see that the base set-up is bad after a bit of riding. As already mentioned, I spent more than 12 hours adjusting the ABS values, brake pressure and car settings, but could not improve the brakes. The best part was change the dampers to shift the load more to the front, set the brake pressure to 80% and the ABS to 9, but as you say it wasn't perfect, it was locking up and wearing out the front tyres.
    My point is that the fact that there is such a difference in cars under the same BOP is strange. It is not that we want to know how to somehow prevent AMG from locking up. I already know that that is almost impossible. Of course, if all cars are equipped with such brakes and ABS, then one can say that it is one of the features of that category. But it is unacceptable for cars in the same category to have completely different grips. I want to hear what you think about this.
    Even so, if I write a slightly longer sentence, some people won't read it all. A big issue!
    Same that a old user who brag about their knowledge to beginners with only a little knowledge, some of them could send the community to the trash

    (Well, I believe that in your heart there was also a desire to help. Thank you so much for that.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2023
  7. jual

    jual Registered

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    What I see in the first video the AMG with ABS off has probably a wrong brake bias. It spins under braking, meaning the rear tires blocks, that could never be happens with a regular road car.
     
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  8. Lavinia

    Lavinia Registered

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    I don't remember what the default brake bias was, but I think you're right as there is a message in the bottom left letterbox that shows when the brake bias is changed. But well, if it has changed, it's only one or two, and 52.5 is usually within normal use. Either way, it locks up significantly (in fact, the M6 also locks up at the rear when the ABS is off...) and that's not really important for what I'm trying to say, so I don't think you need to worry about it that much :)
     
  9. Miquel Ramos

    Miquel Ramos Registered

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    With my setup wear was very symmetrical, more in front tyres, but only 1% in 3 laps. Not an issue because is a mid front engine. Braking is only an issue in entry if you try to steer while braking. Maybe preload could solve this but I hadn't more time. Try it, it should be in the Remco sharing folder
     
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  10. Lavinia

    Lavinia Registered

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    Thanks for the info! I've complained about a lot of things, but I love this game and AMG. I don't think that folder has been updated yet, but I'll try it later today when it is.
     
  11. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    What's the issue in the video?
     
  12. Lavinia

    Lavinia Registered

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    Very different braking and ABS performance in the two cars to which BOP is supposed to apply, and grip under braking that is far removed from reality.
     
  13. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    I don't think the BOP applies to the braking. It usually applies to engine power and weight. Should they drive and brake exactly the same they would be the same car.

    Also, comparing videos of you driving on a sim with videos of a profesional driver in the real car, I think that's a big stretch. Not saying you're not a good driver, but I don't think that's enough ground to criticize the hard work of others.
     
  14. Lavinia

    Lavinia Registered

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    Do you know what BOP means? It's 'balance of performance'. As properly stated in the first post, AMGs should be lighter and have increased engine power if BOP is to be correct, as AMGs don't look as fast as M6s. I wouldn't be saying this if the difference in braking performance was just that when you trail brake and turn in on a particular corner, this car's rear slides while this one doesn't. I am not saying that they should be exactly the same. I'm talking about the differences being too big.

    Comparing my driving with that of the professionals may indeed be disrespectful to them, but please direct your eyes to braking alone. For example, Turn 3, Turn 5 and Turn 13. They are all big braking points, but their cars never even activate the ABS. if you try to do the same thing without activating the ABS on rFactor2, you need another 50m.
    All I'm doing in the video is releasing the accelerator and then pressing the brake 100%, that's all I'm doing. If you think I can't even do that properly, then bring in a student who has never driven a proper car around there and a racing driver and let them test it. Well, I think you'll get the same result.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2023
  15. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Do you guys really think that braking with ABS is "brake at 100%" and expect the magic to happen all alone? That's is a delusion waiting to happen. ABS is not black magic, it just prevent (or limit) lock ups, but proper techniques is expected anyway.
    Why completely different car should behave the same way? What does it matter for BOP is laptime, not how you achieve them.
    Beside this, setups brake "numbers" maybe misleading : 100% is not the same for each car, is just 100% of THAT car, for some cars this is too much, there is no purpose in setting braking power at 100% if at 80% the tires lock.
    Another thing that mislead people is brake bias: this is too a % but it has NO relation with actual bracking power, because front and rear brakes are usually different, and they ,fed with the same pressure, output different forces.
    In short, CAR1, brake power 100% brake bias 50% IS NOT the same as CAR2, brake power 100%, brake bias 50%.
     
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  16. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Rfactor 2 is a brake game, you can have a cheap wheel, a cheap accelerator and still be decent, but it won't forgive you for a bad brake pedal. This is both hardware related but is setup dependant too, because if braking power is too much compared to available grip, you won't be able to modulate it to thresold, even on a 300 euros brake pedal. And ABS won't change that.
     
  17. Lavinia

    Lavinia Registered

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    Come on, read the text properly before you send it. I wrote that several people have confirmed this problem. They all use different pedals. I'm sick and tired of hearing about devices and pedals. You think I use a G29 brake pedal? To play this game? You've got to be kidding me.
    I told you I've tested it for over 12 hours. I spent several hours testing patterns on the damper alone. I even took a video with the default setup to be fair because I didn't want to have problems with the setup I did. What happens is almost the same whether it's the default or not, though. Do you still have something to say?
     
  18. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    First of all i don't see any problem with AMG or BMW , with or without ABS.
    Infact with ABS ON test the AMG actually stopped earlier than BMW
    Look at the black Box i pointed out in image below, AMG is very clearly stopped far away than BMW

    IMG_3866.jpg IMG_3867.jpg

    Now regarding tyre wear , Both cars are super different, mechanically, aero wise etc etc ....BoP is not some
    magic that will make every car as equal as possible.
    Physics of the car should never be touched to adjust BoP , because that is not how BoP works.
    You can change ballast, air restrictions/turbo boost ,ride height, .....THATS IT.
    Looking at these statements, it clear that you don't know how BoP works.
     
  19. Lavinia

    Lavinia Registered

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    I know about braking distances. It's true that AMGs stop faster. While locking up, though.
    If this is a driving simulation game, as I believe it is, and you have no problem with the AMGs included in that game, then you should explain the difference between them and real life AMGs.
    I don't think you are getting my point. I believe the purpose of BOP is to adjust and race cars with different performance to as similar performance (not the same, but similar) as possible, but with AMG it is a braking and ABS issue, i.e. a problem with the car. I'm just saying that I think it's strange that a car with those problems has been updated and is still under the same BOP as this M6, and is still inferior in terms of one-lap pace and tyre wear. That's why the title also says it's a braking issue, not BOP.
    You can tell him that. I only returned on the same ground because he said so.
     
  20. Lavinia

    Lavinia Registered

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    Several people have misunderstood my point. I will remove the BOP tag as it seems confusing.
     

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