I do like Mills, the Outer Loop variations especially. Although, it was the first circuit I raced the Clio's on extensively so I've become more inclined to race Lime Rock/Monte Carlo/Portugal etc. Recently I've been getting my lap times on Mills variations pretty solid - which is fun. It's always a fun track to come back to once or twice a day for me, personally. Would be great to see a few other options released with ISI's Clio mod, though
Obviously. Where did I say anything like that in the post you quoted? Not everyone wants everything. I for one, don´t want to have some early WIP tracks, just so I can join a server running a totally unrelated circuit at the time I attempt to. And apparently there are others that think the same. No, but every other day as it seems. I have had the occasional look into Abriel´s thread and have seen that there are quite frequent updates lately. And if I chose to use all the tracks from there, that means, I need to update the vMods at the same frequency. Also, I was talking about people being able to join hassle free! I don´t expect everybody, especially not new community members, to keep track of the forum. The new ones, I expect to fire up the program and see what´s what in the lobby, without even knowing about or looking into the forum. Those are the ones, who will have not quite a nice experience then. I have read one post already, where someone said, a friend of his immediately asked for a refund because of how the Mod system works. And it was his friend, not the user, that got his refund. Such no longer users hardly go to the forum and say they do so. They just cannot be bothered and why should they? Again, not exactly hassle free. And just out of principle I don´t want any content on my hard drive that I have no intention of using and I am not the only one as it seems. And 40 GB+ takes quite some time to download. A steep entry hurdle for newcomers, don´t you think? Not everyone has a two or three figure MBit/s connection. Now you´re making things up. I mean come on, extracting is not exactly rocket science, is it? And checking for errors?! I just extracted and ran the sim to see if it works, if that´s what you mean. I never examined content I downloaded. It either worked or it didn´t. In the latter case it got removed from my storage device right away, end of story. Well, here I was, thinking rFactor 2 would be a change for the better in that respect. Seeing that if I only install rFactor 2 I get a bare bones platform without tracks and cars, implies to me, that the original intention was something along the lines: "Build your own simulation, use whatever content you fancy." This is backed by the fact, that future content releases will be made as components rather than mods. That of course might have come to be out of necessity to workaround the obvious shortcomings of the vMod design bug, which is connecting cars to tracks and relying on it to shift the mismatch problem to another domain. Exactly, I go and download the tracks I want not the tracks that have no relation to the session I want to join. And the mismatch argument is moot, not being allowed to join the server because of missing content comes awfully close to a mismatch from a logical point of view. It´s even worse now, since, again, even if I had the track that is currently running but don´t have the all the other tracks of the vMod in question as well, I would not be allowed onto the server. The larger the track selection of the vMod, which by the way has virtually no relation to the track/event filter as well, the higher the probability of someone missing content. Awfully limiting for a platform that is designed to be so open in all other areas, isn´t it? And rightfully so. I never said, I don´t like the Mod Manager or the packaging. That does not change my inhibitions about the vMod concept as the means to join a server. Cheers, Marcus
Well if doing track UPDATES I meant ( not Build updates ) is no hassle what is the problem with a few more circuits a week. As time goes by vmods will be more specific by mod , series, country, nations, track type, anything you like. I mean think about it someone can release a F1 mod with tracks, real road, HDR, setups one torrent. Then the weather, wind , humidity and tuning can be pre set realistically and a bunch of other things you will not have to worry about. Funny you comment on downloading 50 tracks as it should not bother you ? But I still contend to install 50 rF2 tracks from Abriel's is way way faster and easier then finding them all separately and downloading and extracting them for rF as a example. ......and yes checking structure first, not all winrars are perfect. With mod manager you can uninstall/install or delete a track or mod in seconds without using windows explorer. No you never said you can't ..... I just making another point in favor of them while vmod haters just keep on about the same thing, having to load all tracks which I think is pretty petty besides.
DurgeDriven, you are starting to get on my nerves, sorry to say that. You obviously have no inclination of reading or understanding my posts properly. When did I say updating vMods is no hassle?! Have you even tried that yourself? Anyway, if you keep this up, I will just stop responding to your posts. I have made my points, you have nothing to invalidate them, so you read something into my posts, that isn´t in there, not by a long shot. Bye, Marcus Edit: You clearly have missed my point about vMods. Again, and for the last time, I have nothing against the packaging system, on the contrary even, I like it. You go on and on about the benefits of the packaging system, which has nothing to with my points. Over and out.
Diablo, Every point you've made here is valid and the worst thing is all this was said will happen 8 months ago! No one was listing then and no one will listen now. Like you, With tracks & car mods, I wont put unfinished or ones I don't want on my PC. Mismatch we keep being told doesn't exist, What a load of bull! Vmods create them all the time and not having a track that's connected to a Vmods even tho you have the current track running on the server you can't join! Call it what ever you like, make as many excuses as you like but that's a mismatch.
I think we shouldn´t give up. I wasn´t here 8 months ago, so I can only begin to imagine how tiring and frustrating it must have been. I think we just need to keep making noise. There are also new users coming onto the forum who complain about it, so it should be obvious to ISI, that it´s not a problem of some "insiders" being biased against it. I hope in the long run, they will see that this is far from ideal. But maybe there is a hidden agenda to have control over the content and its usage. In short, if they don´t like a (v)Mod, it is as easy as deleting the ModID from their database to render it useless for online gaming, tracks and cars. For now, I think this is just the most paranoid interpretation I can come up with... for now! Cheers, Marcus
This is a open discussion yes, if you do not like my opinion on anything just let it pass especially if you going to start throwing around the I am sick of this .......... What I understand is you had to jump into a unrelated thread and start going on about vmods rather then make a positive comment. So you made your unrelated point in a unrelated thread and I am not free to make mine without you being sick. lol That is what I responded to nothing else. I do understand look above that was your first complaint. Tell me I do not understand again that sentence. lol I give you simple logic why downloading all tracks is not a BIG drama is all , in my opinion you free to disagree. Limit your tracks you limit your room options both ways, again up to you. As Admin it is a non issue for me I select what runs and what doesn't. All I was saying is hey look at the packaging pros and weigh them up against the worst of vmods or the old system I pretty sure vmods and packaging is meant to go together and if a mod has tracks I do not like or want to download I won't use it. simple as that. Anyway I recommend everyone to keep up now while you can, put aside a decent archive for PACKAGES it does not have to run from rF2. Learn to use torrents and get Abriel's once a week. While you have a shower or dinner let it run, click click click 3 new tracks all done. Yes of course I see the other issues as well. Personally I would just uninstall and delete and de-register the mod and make a new v1.00 rather then update it, that is all I do. In the end it is up to you what tracks you run you don't same as any other sim. If people do not like downloading a 1mb mod and running the torrent even once a day that is if they run everyday for a room they really like what is the problem. Not worth losing sleep over.
Just needs to be more like other games handle servers... the server has a list of cars (mods) that it's running, so obviously anyone joining needs all those. Then it has a list of tracks. When you look at a list of servers, you can see which ones you have the right cars for and those you don't. When you 'open' an available one with the right cars, it pops up with a list of tracks that are on the server, the one currently being run, and which ones (if any) you don't have. Then you can join and take part in practice/qual/race on the track you have, and if you don't have the next one it takes you back out to a sort of holding area. Then you either wait for a track you have again or go elsewhere. This could all be done without anyone having to create a vmod manually. All the tracks and cars (should) have an ID, and you could set a logical and reasonable limit on how many mods and tracks a server can have running at a time (say 10 mods, 50 tracks) so then the server just needs to give that list, and the clients compare that list to what they have installed. Of course the servers that run 'standard' stuff will get more people on them, just like they are now. But it'd be easier to join in a quick race without needing any other content the server will run later after you're gone. And no, I don't think running a torrent daily/weekly to try and keep up with the available content is a reasonable expectation for the majority of users.
You had complaints many people do not want to run all tracks and complaints about torrent time and size I gather would be the others. That is fair for a new joiner to rF2 but it would be no different if they joined rFactor. Okay it is 2014 and we still have a vmod. You tell me how many tracks should a vmod have and what they should be. ? Say 12 tracks the best 12 does everyone in your room agree what 12 are best from all addons. How long till you get tired of those or someone wants a change, every month 2 /3 ? Whatever you pick to add people to your schedule in any sim people are going to have to download anyways. It is akin to saying no one should run a vmod with all tracks in it. Fine tell us which to run and we will do it. Without a vmod I would be free to join any room ? I do not think so. Even if I could what happens when the next track that gets loaded I do not have ? I get booted. ? If there was a vmod I would know that to begin. I thought the idea of a vmod was like take a major team releases F1 mod, it has all tracks , HDR , setups, real road, etc. etc. It also has the vmod tuned to specific track day conditions for the whole year ( changeable ) and tracks set to specific time of year and season , ambient temps, wind direction, etc. Real road may vary in sessions and be set with weather. With the json details you can host the same vmod and not have to worry about a single setting.
WHY??? Clios at Mills are exciting and ISI guys love it too!!! Just finished a race with Gijion, Tim, Joe (or there are other people that use their names online?)
DurgeDriven, my first post to this thread was hardly unrelated to the topic. I wanted to point out, that vMods also have their part, a major one in my opinion, in why so many servers run the default Clio mod. Again, the least hassle for all sides seems to be to stick to the default mods because of the drawbacks I have pointed out. And the Clios are popular, obviously. The default Clio mod has Mills linked in. You see a pattern now? Anyway, just go on and twist my words or read something that isn´t there, but don´t expect a response from me. I´ve put some real effort into my responses so far, effort that you are not worthy of apparently.
I am pretty sure those were AI. See how good the AI has become, it can fool people into thinking they are the real deal.
Well I don't have problem with Mills if you don't use the longest configuration. I think Lime Rock is something that is unsuitable for racing, you always cut the track somewhere and get penalized. If you want to stop cutting, build a concrete wall there.
13months ago...get it right anyway ISI are releasing individual components over the coming months so hopefully the stock online races will change, we'll see. as for Mills I bloody love the place, more layouts = more fun for me!
None of us have a problem with Mills, its very enjoyable, its running it repeatedly and almost exclusively thats the problem. It was the same with the F2s at Palm Beach for a while. I choose to download the tracks I need to vary and enhance my online rF2 experience. But if you end up in a server with stock content only, and at the end of the race they all start again quite happily same car, same track and I end up thinking 'Are you people all mad!'. It feels like they're wilfully having a limiting and dull rF2 experience and why? Cos downloading Feels and VLM tracks is too hard or time consuming or expensive or whatever other reason? You must be kidding. Diablo's mentioned a problem or two from the hosts perspective, and I can see his point of view. My perspective is that it took no effort, hardly any time and a negligible amount of bandwidth to download the best tracks and I can't understand how its viewed as difficult or a hassle. And vmods only take a very few minutes to create. Also, I wouldn't want anyone to be under the impression that you need all the tracks to ensure being able to 'Get Mod' successfully. That hasn't been my experience. Of course, I don't doubt that I'm missing some point of view or other, certainly Diablos problems with the Get Mod feature sound like a pain in the neck.
I think I read Tim Wheatley say that if the host references each race individually in a vmod, you wouldn't need to have every track installed in order to get into a server. If this is the case then things should work well, e.g. if people just want to dl the quality tracks like myself.
Or you could still have all tracks in single vmod, but it would prevent you from joining only those tracks you haven't installed.
You do need all tracks that the vMod you want to install points to. Having all available tracks available is just a brute force method of avoiding issues with get mod. Since you already have all tracks it cannot be a missing track that causes an uninstallable vMod. For what you get by creating a vMod, just to host a simple server session that contains additional tracks, it is a hassle, especially on a remote server. But enough of that, now it´s really starting to get off topic. Just you wait and see, when there really is 40GB+ worth of content, this is all going to fall apart.
That´s the worst nightmare for me as an admin. That means, I do have to create a vmod for every single track. And do it again, if I want to have different cars. Edit: Just one last example and I will leave this thread alone. I could create a vmod that contains all official ISI cars and all of Abriel´s circuit collection. Then I set the server to just run the Nissan 370z, no other cars allowed, at Limerock park, not other events in the queue. Now be honest with yourself and tell me you (anyone, not you in particular smithaz) would want to download almost 5GB, just to find out the server will never run the surplus content you just downloaded. I am not talking about the "educated" rFactor 2 user that has inside knowledge from the forum, think of yourself as someone that is excited to try rFactor 2 for the very first time or is still in the exploration stage.
