Baffled by press

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Promag, Oct 27, 2014.

  1. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    This is the exact problem.

    Well it doesn't really come across as "help" imo. It only comes across as "do this, just like I tell you to, or else you're doomed and headed for disaster.
    Very unappealing to be quite honest.

    Well I'm glad you got that off your chest...
    But I'm afraid you are mistaken.

    When did I say "rF2 is perfect"? That's right. I didn't.
    I always report bugs and glitches I find. Try to be as helpful as I can be, describing the hows and whens of those bugs.
    I also give credit where credit is due.
    Am I a fanboy for expressing my gratitude towards the work that ISI is doing? If so, fine by me.

    One thing you won't see me do is taking on the "know-it-all hat" and tell ISI what to do with their business.
    You won't see me second guessing the company, every time they prioritize something differently from what I would have wanted them to.
    You won't see me spreading doom and gloom either, when there isn't any reason to do so.
    A select few people seem to be imagining that rF2 is failing miserably. Which it isn't. So there's that.

    All companies need sales. That's pretty obvious.
    When a company says it needs sales, does that mean the company is on the verge of belly-up?
    Highly doubt it.;)
     
  2. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    The UI is interesting matter, it has soon been discussed for 3 years but it still looks exactly same as in day one when beta came out. Eduard made a stylish Minimalist UI from scratch in less than 2 weeks (intense work of course), but when will ISI release one? I'm losing a bit hope on this aspect, the current UI is not even in HD resolution. It's not like UI is very important to me, but it's a simple thing that could help with first impression for demo players.

    ISI tracks shouldn't default to green RR, they default to the preset light rubber profile, at least newer tracks do. Probably many first time users will not understand though what realroad or preset means.

    Graphics is another aspect that would be easy to improve if even slight dev resources were put on it. Last update that added any feature to graphics was in last winter with automated HD.
     
  3. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    For real? Sweet, guess the devs better get off their arses then ai...
     
  4. Adrian

    Adrian Registered

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    [MENTION=1]Tim Wheatley[/MENTION] Regardless of the timing of things to push marketing of the product one thing ISI could do better is to communicate when you change something we've been requesting.

    This builds example would be the fact the plugin delay is all but gone, yet there's no mention apart from "Much behind the scenes work on plugin interface for future interface additions", which while giving us an overview of whats been done, doesn't help anyone that's been looking at build notes and waiting to install RF2 again after a problem they have is solved.

    Just some constructive criticism. :)
     
  5. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    +111111111111111111111

    YES!!!

    I've been saying this for years! When most cars in-game are NOT at full throttle, they then sound weak, thin, "shallow", "narrow", quiet, etc. It's pretty bad actually, and I honestly believe it can affect physics perception (like you're saying) because at anything other than 100% throttle, the engine just sounds weak, "thin", and quiet; it makes things feel like hardly any power is being applied.

    In real-life this is not the case, at all. Sure, full-throttle will have a louder and more "full" sound, but things still sound loud and "full" even at 0% throttle, let alone 30, 50, 80 etc. percent throttle.

    Apart from just sounding like crap, I totally agree that it can affect people's driving as there is hardly any sense of engine-power application unless you're at 100% throttle. The odd mod here and there does a decent job of alleviating this issue, but it's extremely rare.

    You can also sort of alleviate the issue by using sound programs like "Breakaway Audio Enhancer" (awesome program), "DFX Audio Enhancer", and others. Or you can just enable your PC's option that kills dynamic range (for my Creative based soundcard, it's call "Smart Volume Management", and for my Sony bluray player, it's called "Night Mode"). However, killing dynamic range of all audio is not the proper way of doing things.

    If my memory serves me right, then the Miata is possibly the only car in rF2 that does an ok job of not sounding "thin", "shallow", lifeless, depth-less, "narrow", quiet, weak, etc. when at anything other than 100% throttle.

    Perfect example. Listen from 30 seconds to 50 seconds. Listen to off-throttle and especially to on-but-not-100%-throttle. It sounds like the engine is almost turned off, so quiet, "thin" (and every other adjective I listed above). Then, as soon as 100% full-throttle becomes activated, the car sounds fine (and rather good :) ) again.

    The fact that this happens on probably 9 out of every 10 cars (probably even more), and in any ISI engine based sim, leads me to believe that it is much more of a sound-engine issue rather than just bad audio work from the modder.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2014
  6. Nazirull Safry Paijo

    Nazirull Safry Paijo Registered

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    ^THIS

    btw...new UI???
     
  7. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    I don't share your belief of a problem with the sound engine, I have been able to solve this problem on all cars I wanted to tune in RF1 just tweaking the .sfx file, it was one the first things I did when I tried a new car.

    I changed the coefficient for the wave example VS_INSIDE_TIRE_SCRUB=0.6, TMTires\scrub1_dry_in.wav, in some cases I replaced the wave from an other car. It was not the modder being lazy in every case but the fact that you can also change in the game options the relative values of the volume of sounds of tires and motor

    Those were the lines involved:

    For tires:

    // SKID SOUNDS (INSIDE)

    VS_INSIDE_TIRE_SCRUB=0.6, TMTires\scrub1_dry_in.wav
    VS_INSIDE_SKID_DRY=9.0, TMTires\ROAD_SKID.wav

    For motor:

    // ENGINE SOUNDS (INSIDE)

    VS_INSIDE_COAST_ENGINE_1=1.00, Toyota_TS030\Toyota_idle.wav
    VS_INSIDE_COAST_ENGINE_2=2.50, Toyota_TS030\Toyota_offlow.wav
    VS_INSIDE_COAST_ENGINE_3=2.50, Toyota_TS030\Toyota_offmid.wav
    VS_INSIDE_COAST_ENGINE_4=2.50, Toyota_TS030\Toyota_offhigh.wav

    VS_INSIDE_POWER_ENGINE_1=1.50, Toyota_TS030\Toyota_idle.wav.wav
    VS_INSIDE_POWER_ENGINE_2=2.80, Toyota_TS030\Toyota_onlow.wav
    VS_INSIDE_POWER_ENGINE_3=2.50, Toyota_TS030\Toyota_onmid.wav
    VS_INSIDE_POWER_ENGINE_4=2.80, Toyota_TS030\Toyota_onhigh.wav
    VS_INSIDE_POWER_ENGINE_5=3.00, Toyota_TS030\Toyota_onveryhigh.wav

    Cheers.
     
  8. hammer666

    hammer666 Registered

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    Good post by Tim.
    For me the most important point was that there still seems to be some pride in what ISI have done/are doing - and that's the best sign for the future.

    When I bought RF2, it took me pretty much that entire weekend to download and install, configure graphics and controller etc.
    Much of that time was spent googling forums to find fixes, tweaks or to find if it was my install that was busted or a known issue (e.g - Monaco 66).

    Not how you want to spend your time with a new Toy.

    It's like all the parts are there to make a great Toy. But the maker has just thrown all the bits in a box, given you a tube of glue and told you to get on with it.
    Hopefully the pride and enthusiasm I read in Tims post will translate into a bit more care put into the packaging and presentation of a sold engine with great potential. :)
     
  9. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    Well as I said basically 0 resources are put on graphics right now, easy to see by looking at changelogs from last 4 or so builds. So it would be easy to switch dev priorities to some extent if better marketing was priority. Many YouTube videos give currently bad impression of rF2 graphics, and no, it's not all about the compression.

    There has been confirmed plans about UI change now for almost 2 years, as witness from this post. When Eduard comes and makes a nice-looking custom UI in less than 2 weeks, it makes me wonder though will it ever happen.
     
  10. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    First impression is important when buying a new product but UI is not just cosmetic, it is also scaling to triple screens, bezel correction, more detailed info in online lobby etc.
     
  11. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    I do not think so. I thought rF2 eng sound pretty good before, not until heard real ones' engine sound. I do not think you can fix engine sound though.
    rF2 engine sound is way OFF! Not even close.

    Listen to yourself:

    Nissan GT-R GT1:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPeCRPZtdh8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTcHi1w64kc

    Corvetter c6.r GT2:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYsAwQwkXWE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_KD6_giP4g

    those files had been OVER processed (signal processed) and altered, with too many effects. The engine sound lost all the inner details, punches, cracking, etc. I looked at the spectrum, they are way off from real car's raw sound.
    I am careless about sound effects, all I want is close to real car engine sound! So far, I have "gaming sound" instead.

    edit: sorry I meant to OUTSIDE engine sound for those videos. Inside engine sound is off too I think.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2014
  12. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    You do not appear to understand the basic facts about UI development.
     
  13. Miro

    Miro Registered

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    The most interessting thing about Iggy in this case is, as it says on their website, that the modders are not dependent on the devs and their available UI entires. I wonder if that is going to be the case with rF2 aswell? For example currently if the UI would be powerd by Iggy we could aswell just make a max FPS option in the UI. As it is now AFAIK this is impossible without the commands already being available. And if Flash is really supported aswell I guess there will be no limits at all regarding UI modding.
     
  14. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    To Joe,

    I am affraid you totally missed the meaning of my post, read again what we were comenting with Spinelli "I totally agree that it can affect people's driving as there is hardly any sense of engine-power application unless you're at 100% throttle".

    Those lines were those used in RF1 (I didn't check if they are the same or simlar in RF2).

    I like music, I listen to recorded piano on a decent setup with pleasure, but when I listen to the real thing it think my recordings are way off...

    I attended a real F1 race (2013 V8), and I am very happy that the cars in RF2 don't sound as shrill and loud, so do my neighbours, I would be totally deaf today.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2014
  15. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    Hi Lgel:

    sorry I did not realize you are talking rF1. But hope you get my point, though.

    In regarding recording, I do not think this is issue. The sounds you heard from those videos were recorded by cheap cameras. It really depends how they (ISI) do the sound engineering. For outside sound, they shall record sound at various angles and level:
    say: front, front left/right, side, rear. with those 4 sets of recording at diff RPM and gears I think. They shall use far less digital signal process to add "effects". This is not music so we need audiophiles to tell diff. You can hear from the youtube videos and tell how much off.
     
  16. Rich Goodwin

    Rich Goodwin Registered

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    I'm not trying to fan flames, just a genuine question..

    Is what has been produced(by modders) basically a redskin? Are ISI totally redeveloping the UI and how it works?

    And no, I have no idea about UI development lol
     
  17. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    Well I can reply to that. I know what Eduard basically did with Minimalist UI, I spoke with him and yes, obviously he can't re-work the underlying UI core. What he did was from a difficult UI interface (UI.OSC file, I closed it as quickly as I opened it...) re-work all buttons, positions, fonts, add new art to backgrounds, etc. I would say end result is ten times better in visual appeal, comparing for example this garage page in pictures below. Standard UI has fonts that are too big, text doesn't fit screen, backgrounds that don't fit to text, etc. Of course functionality isn't that much different in this Minimalist UI, but how many people would complain about "ancient UI" if something like this was in place instead of standard UI?

    View attachment 14821 View attachment 14822
     
  18. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    DevMode has a WYSIWYG UI editor in it which makes editing an OSC file a little easier. I think what ISI is working on is a whole new core.
     
  19. Rich Goodwin

    Rich Goodwin Registered

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    Cheers for clearing that up guys.

    I think I'm the only person that isn't phased by the "vanilla" UI lol
     
  20. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    No, you're not the only one...XD

    All I want to be able to do is find and set options easily. But I get that many others find it unappealing.
     

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