Baffled by press

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Promag, Oct 27, 2014.

  1. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    And to say this Tim, you should make you not much toughts, everything else than rf2 is scrap atm.
     
  2. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    I give a **** to the press, usually there are only looser, you will win.
     
  3. matf1

    matf1 Registered

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    I can feel it Tim! In the last few weeks, there's a buzz. Pub servers seem more populated, negativity seems on the decline and on your side... the changes to release methodology, the foundation patching and the fact you guys seem to be head down, bum up has felt like it's in prep for something big.
     
  4. Rich Goodwin

    Rich Goodwin Registered

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    Thanks for the communication, Tim.

    I've been pushing the 20% off offer everywhere I can. It's a great deal.
     
  5. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    See you, until then and good succeed.
     
  6. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    I can tell you that I know personally a lot of people that had switched from AC to rf2. I also helped them to configure rf2 to have the best graphic/performance and helped him to configure the FFB( controller ini) and now they are very happy with rf2.
     
  7. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    Haha...yea they banned me for this post in the DTM 2014 news" looks very good, can some one tell me where can I buy it". I made this post in proposed, because it is redicuolus how they put Pcars pre-order link in every Pcars news or video while they don't do the same with rf2, iR....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2014
  8. TJones

    TJones Registered

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    Good post Tim, interesting to read.
     
  9. nipzon

    nipzon Registered

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    I have all the other titles including one that gets a $5 deal out of me every now and then.

    I love to go and see what they are like, what changes they have made and admire their eye candy but in the end feeling wanting when it comes to a real driving experience. I can feel I had a race or a practise with rf2 because of FFB, real road, weather and car physics and these are the things I don't get anywhere else. It is like your software gives my steering and my simxperience simulator exactly what it needs to produce the perfect sim experience.

    You guys are nearly there to say, this is it, the final release. For me if you can nail the graphics I will be the happiest man ever.
     
  10. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    Great post Tim, very informative and interesting.
     
  11. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Hello Tim,

    Fisrst of all I really want RF2 to suceed in the market place, I feel it is well worth it's cost without any rebate, and I don't want to start a hate war.

    You speak of errors during the development of RF2, I agree with you on some points you stated not with all.

    As a professional I have learned the hard way that the first impresion you get of a product is very important, and it takes an awful lot of efforts to change it afterwards.

    So lets begin by the UI, releasing this one was a mayor error, you are still paying it dearly today.

    I understand that your idea was to release a few different cars to help modders extrapolate and complement your work.

    As already said, I like your historic content, but racing with an Howston against the supplied opponents was dishartening (so ugly were the skins provided). I spent many hours making semi decent skins to race against. But to do this, I had to learn how to use the packaging system to get rid of the supplied skins (as an IT guy it was not a problem for me, just a very long and tedious job compared to RF1, if you add the ridiculous necessiity to create small icons for every car to have a preview...).

    I did this for Howston's, for the BT20 (supplied skins were a shame) just before you did the same, for the C6R, and for the Nissan GTR1, I found skinpacks for FISI and Marussias and my RF2 looked less miserable (not as good as RF1 still).

    As for the DW12, I think the major error was to be unable to race them on a road course witout repackaging the track (this type of error is not to be expected from such a softwarehouse, and then the very very long time it took to adress this problem).

    The car as it was, wasn't may be exactly what an hardcore simracer was expecting, but neverthless good looking, fun to race and an easier entry point to OW than the FISI or Marussia for a new driver. If there is a new version, I may keep this one for the day I want to have a quick fun without many hours of training to be competitive.

    People who try a sim want to be able to lap a new and sexy car without too much trouble, that is were I found RF2 was most lacking (tracks default to green, cold tires). I know people can (it they are told somewhere how to) enable driving aids.

    People should begin learning their turf with easy cars before upgrading to beasts like Marussias or Spark F1, but they won't, they want to drive an exciting car and have an instant reward (the magnificent Skip Barber is all but easy to drive, as is the real car).

    So without dumbing cars for hardcore simmers, couldn't cars have by default a beginner setup (without driving aids, the car would be stable, the special beginner tires sticky from first steps and very progressive), the cars would be fun to drive, very forgiving, but uncompetitive against a good and edgy setup. People could race with them on servers against other guys using the same setups. (needless to say that all the cars skins would look gorgeous).

    An other point, in RF1 I found sometimes cars driving like on ice, very difficult to control while braking, spinning at the first provocation. Where was the problem, with physics? No, they just needed a tuning of the sound file (SFX), replacing skiding sounds and adjusting their relative levels, a car too silent at low revs would spin very easily (because you woud tend to step too much on the gas pedal). It was easy to fix in RF1, here it is diificult or impossible if mas files are encrypted, you need to repackage the car while it doesn't affect the performance of the car.

    For instance I read long hate wars in forums about Enduracers tires, and the fact that GT cars spun most unrealisticaly at low speed (mine weren't without changing physics, just sound files).


    In my carreer I have seen people continue to stress how superior their product was because of such and such feature so superior to the competing product. The fact that the competing product sold tenfold theirs didn't change their view (the others were wrong), the competing products later sold a thousand more than theirs, they were laid out. But twenty years later, they still tell you with misty eyes how superior their product was, and it was just because the competitors spent more marketing money and because customers were stupid.

    Those are just comments from a back seat driver, who just wants to help.

    Cheers to everyone.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2014
  12. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    First: Thanks Tim for your post!
    Second: When you don´t wanted to release half finished features
    why did you do it again? The new spotter has not much to do with the ideas
    that where collected years ago in a thread that I can´t find anymore! Someone remembers?

    To be honest, I don´t think a new UI is the thing that gives a "kick" in sales, nor will it be
    the fundamental thing that makes rF2 near to complete or something.
    You (ISI) will not reach the goal until you take a few dollars and
    -increase dev speed
    -license a whole series

    I wonder from day 1 why the heck you didn´t licensed the whole BTCC instead of one car!
    That is a reason for people to buy this product!------> rFactor 2 (insert series name here)

    Greets
    Pete
     
  13. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    Oh man, those 'this, and only this is how ISI should conduct business' posts crack me up. :D
     
  14. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    Sorry hexagramme that I posted my opinion!
    I could not care about theire business, but Tim said they want/ need sales, so I made a suggestion.
    And what I wanted to tell you for a long time:
    Deal with it that not all people here wear rose-coloured glasses and have "issues" with rF2.
    Not all people have to be in your super-world where everything seems to be perfect!

    I wonder why you take such posts like the above negative, when I/people only want to help!?
     
  15. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    We don't give ISI any lesson (who are we for that ?), we try to express our feelings (some of us have a long experience in busisness and software development, we have made many errors before in our careers, and sometimes learned something).

    I am convinced that ISI are working like mads to improve the situation and they have all my support and sympathy.

    Putting the head in the sand won't help, fan or hate posts neither, alas (not the case of your post, I am not the least taking on you).

    If RF2 doesn't meet it's expected sales target it is not because of an excessive price, malevolent press, trolls, or haters.

    I really enjoy driving RF2 cars, I just fear it won't last very long if things go along as they are now, time is running out.

    In my post I have been very lenient I could have said many true things that would have hurt a lot more (did you hear about the concept called "managing client expectations") ?

    We live in internet time, how long do you stay on a web page that is below par when you try to buy something and you have alternatives? I'll answer you, a few seconds.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2014
  16. PRC Steve

    PRC Steve Registered

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    I'm sorry I missed this statement from ISI stating they need sales and are struggling somewhat.. please. The only thing ISI is doing is going from strength to strength. Non of it will be in my mind when I line up on a 30+ grid tonight in a league.
    Scare mongering.
     
  17. Rich Goodwin

    Rich Goodwin Registered

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    OK so on reddit where the 20% offer was posted, these were the general perceptions of rfactor2 to NON customers. Not my opinion, just what people had posted and there....barriers to purchasing.

    Online is "dead"
    Graphics and general graphics performance.
    General confusion over the point of paying yearly/lifetime and what the point of it was. Where the money goes etc.

    Again, not particularly my opinion, but genuine opinions and thoughts from sim racers/potential customers.


    Online being dead I simply don't agree with.

    Graphics......they're an acquired taste in days of everything being full of bloom and shiny stuff.

    I DO think that there could be a better/more prominent communication regarding yearly/lifetime cost and why someone might want to invest.
     
  18. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    So recognizable :)
    Been through this during jobs, creating art and even video's, the excitement of a new development/tool/content/etc can get you so hyped up all you want to do is release it to the world and enjoy people enjoying it.
    And then looking back and thinking, hm, should have....could have....

    The Dutch approach really helped me in this, always double checking, is it good enough, what can be improved, did I give it a 100% or am I just being impatient or lazy.
    Its never going to be good enough though, especially within a team and a big opinionated userbase but the least one could do is minimize the stretch in their own quality expectations.
    Everything you create and finish is your best work at that time, but tomorrow its going to be something that could have been better. it always works like that (unless you don't care of course) and it should be.

    Its a double edged sword and it will never be just right, especially with a complex platform as rf2, there's just too much going on and whilst pushing the envelope a certain degree of acceptance is in order as well I reckon.
    Posts like these can help a great deal though, transparency creates allot of goodwill and acceptance.
     
  19. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    Great to see posts from staff. There was another good one in the latest build thread that unfortunately was buried.


    It's seems as though it's always the usual suspects who are always trying to pawn off their opinions as facts. It's quite easy to see really.
     
  20. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Hello Jamie,

    For someone saying that the usual suspects are always trying to pawn off their opinions as facts, you give absolutely no facts at all in your post, which is at least contradictory, but quite frequent in this forum.

    The usual suspect has spent hundred of hours making skins (of questionable quality, I agree ) available for the community, designed racing skins for unknowns for free (kept private for them), helped many people with problems publicly or privately, as you did without any doubt.

    What is the next step, ban the usual suspects from the forum?

    Have a previous filter on posts to reach 100 % fan posts?

    Have a nice day and enjoy your racing.


    P.S.

    In my post I said:

    - The UI didn't belong to a top of the shelf product (it is an opinion, but widely shared it seems, and attending to current ISI developpers priorities).

    - The DW12 could not be run against AI on a road course without repackaging the track if it was not Indianapolis (is it an opinion, or a fact?).

    - You liked the skins supplied with the Howstons and the BT20 and they made RF2 look good (I agree, it's not a fact but an opinion). I didn't, I prefer the T5 skinpack for instance (2012 and 2013 season), but I am surely highly suspect in thinking so.

    - Defaulting tracks to green (it is a fact, but if you really think it helped RF2 gain new friends why not).

    - Helping new comers join our ranks would be beneficial (I agree it is an opinion, not a fact).
     

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