Audio surround

Discussion in 'Wish Lists' started by Rik, May 29, 2014.

  1. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    I never posted this before, but a month or two ago, I saw a Facebook reply from ISI (I think it was Tim) stating that there'll be some sound updates coming soon. I can't remember if he specifically said "sound engine" or just "sound," but it looks like there is some more work going on with regards to audio. I don't think he mentioned this in the forums or on Twitter, but I saw that he wrote this as a reply to someone on Facebook.

    I didn't want to make a big deal about it (hard not to when - besides physics and FFB - sound is your favorite thing even ahead of GFX, U.I. MP, etc.) but ya, I guess I'll finally report it here and now :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2014
  2. Promag

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    In reality goiing 150 mph in a reflective 500 hp metal box wearing a helmet? not sure where matrix audio could apply. Mono and transducers would be the optimum situation.
     
  3. YoLolo69

    YoLolo69 Registered

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    As I said, not when you crashed and remove your helmet and are waiting for some helps on the side of the track ;)
     
  4. Rik

    Rik Registered

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    like steering wheel ffb has been modified to make us feel even effects that in reality do not exist on the steering wheel.
    Audio helps immersion as the ffb on the steering wheel.
     
  5. Promag

    Promag Registered

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    It is not realistic, to most, to achieve G-force in a sim hence ffb , but audio if done right can.
     
  6. HardWin

    HardWin Registered

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    Real 5.1 surround like RaceRoom please! It's 2017!
     
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  7. Rastas

    Rastas Registered

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    I have 5.1 working.........................
     
  8. HardWin

    HardWin Registered

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    Hi Rastas, you probably mean that you get sound out of your surround sound boxes through mixing of the amp, what I meant here is true native surround like Raceroom...
     
  9. Rastas

    Rastas Registered

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    Haaa,i get it now hehe :D
     
  10. Arrako23

    Arrako23 Registered

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    HI,

    Any news? Is 5.1 surround supported in 2018?

    Thank you very much.
     
  11. Nielsen

    Nielsen Registered

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    Just found this old thread.
    Conserning rF2 and surround sound then people often forget that it have been a wellknown knowledge all the way back to the "quadraphonic heydays" that its possible to extract a lot of hidden ambience and directionality cues from 2 channels stereo sound.
    At least if the stereo is properly recorded so the original soundfield is preserved in the 2 channels.
    The conclusion was that if the stereo is artificially created in a studio by 2 independent MONO sources then no soundfield was included - and can be extracted!
    But if the stereo was recorded more "natural" with a live stereo microphone setup then such rather simple 2 channels stereo would include a soundfield holding directional information from at least some part of a horisontal 360 degree circle.
    As a sidenote then this "simplistic" microphone setup is used by the theoretical most respected (and well documentated) surround setup - the Ambisonic sound system.
    The only difference is that Ambisonic uses a kind of double stereo mic setup where the first pair records the horisontal perspective and an analog mic system records the vertical part.

    But back to our rF2 only stereo sound - then using a proper soundcard that is able to extract the mentioned "hidden ambience and directionality cues" it would be (and is) possible to get proper sound cues played in the back and side speakers in a 5.1/7.1 surround setup.
    At least all soundcards using Creatives X-Fi ICs are able to do that.
    My own soundcard a 2nd hand Auzentech Forte 7.1 uses Creatives older but until now most advanced IC the CA20K2 audio and DSP chip and has no problem enhancing rF2s sound to a believeable 7.1 surround sound.
    Note1: Most X-Fi soundcards include also the DTS NEO sound format able to more or less extract the same hidden information described above.
    Note2: Newer Creative soundcards is only able to support 5.1 channels but are using the same extracting technique.
    Note3: Extracting this hidden "ambience and directionality cues" is NOT some fake artificial addendum to the soundfield.
     
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  12. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I gave up on soundcards several years ago. It seemed the advances in soundcards never matched cpu or OS improvements. You would have to come up with some 'simple' app that would harness the capabilities you write of.
     
  13. Nielsen

    Nielsen Registered

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    I admit a lot of people are under the impression that because of the evolution in MB sound there is no advantage anymore to buy/use a real soundcard.
    And I have no intention of trying to change such oppinions ;-)
    People are allowed to .... etc
    But both my personal PC sound experience and specially all the comparesments made by my monthly rather serious german PCGamesHW between MB sound and the sound from a dedicated soundcard tells me, that even the more simplistic real soundcards gives better sound (and often more features) than even the best MB sound.
    I said "more" simplistic not "most" simplistic because its ofcourse possible to find cheap soundcards that is pure crap:)

    Personally I have only found 1(one) MB "soundcard" that gave me just as good soundquality and even more features than most dedicated soundcards - and that was the famous Soundstorm system based on nVidias nForce2 chipsets.
    Soundstorm is the only MB sound certified by Dolby Labs (that I know of).
    Famous between dedicated sound nerds:)

    ByTheWay: ‎Often people do not know what they're missing - until they try it:)
    Oh BTW2: http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=4728
     
  14. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Nielsen The sound field preserved in audio recordings, whether through more advanced channel encodings or just the nature of multi-mic recording, doesn't help at all with a game that has objects all around you. My engine might sound like it's roughly in the correct position if it was recorded from the driver's point of view (or engineered to reflect the relative positions of driver and engine) but that doesn't help me hear other cars to my front left, rear left, etc. It's completely non-existent in rF2, and the sound files aren't going to help.

    Dedicated soundcards that extract channel information from 2-channel audio can be useful, but not in gaming. As for soundcards generally, they were certainly very useful back in the old days (even after they were necessary), when game makers sometimes cared more about sound and directX supported things like EAX. Then they dropped it, and dedicated soundcards, for gaming, really are only about sound levels (noise, headphone amp).

    It's like we had a period there where PC/console audio had reached good capabilities, and people were working with it to supplement the slightly dodgy graphics of the day with the support of technologies embedded in directX (but still requiring engine coding from the devs), then as graphics got better all that went away. It's hard to find any mainstream game these days that has believable audio, but they look great.
     
  15. Nielsen

    Nielsen Registered

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    As I said I dont need to convince anybody :)
    Thats also the reason I dont use funny absolute statements to cover something that is just my personal opinion.
    Like "this or that can be useful, but not in gaming" or "dedicated soundcards, for gaming, really are only about sound levels".
    I dont need to use such kind of absolute statements to colour my own oppinions as something very autoritative.

    My personal explanation of the reason most dedicated soundcards sounds way better than most MB sound solutions is that Microsofts kill of HW accelerated sound in all post Vista Windows incarnations - was way to premature.
    Because eventhough MS told us that CPU calculated sound was just as good as sound calculated in a dedicated audio processing chip on a special soundcard then people instantly began criticising the meh meh PC sound after Microsofts killing.
    Both because of the lack of sound features - but also because the new introduced cracks, pops, lags and sound anomalities in the CPU calculated PC sound.

    Hehe the problem with such a sound quality based critique is that a lot of gamers use so lousy headphones (headsets) that they cant hear the difference.:)
    And cant hear what they are losing.

    NOTE: "a lot of gamers" is not the same as all gamers:)
     
  16. delapecs

    delapecs Registered

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    We need 8D Audio, or 16D, maybe perhaps i think.;)
    The correct sound for the correct position of each car coming to you :eek:
     
  17. Nitrometh

    Nitrometh Registered

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    I heard rf2 supports the doppler effect but most time in replay the car only gets louder or more quiet. The frequency seems to be the same!?
     
  18. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Nitrometh I think it was me that told you that (unless it was someone else I told), you should be able to hear the pitch change as long as the camera is quite close to the track. More distant cameras will be less obvious, as the change in relative speed will be less abrupt.

    @Nielsen You know what? Fair enough. I have made absolute statements there and I'll admit they won't always be true.

    You didn't address what I said in regards to your post #31 though, in that a soundcard decoding positional information from a sample will do nothing to give surround in rF2 - except in regards to how the sample was recorded. It could even make things worse, with that decoding not in agreement with where the game is trying to position the audio relative to the camera (purely stereo, since that's all it does).

    As far as M/B quality, no doubt many are crap, some are less so. I kept using a discrete sound card for years but I eventually gained so little on modern M/B sound that I stopped bothering. Current game engines rarely do enough with sound to make it worthwhile.
     
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  19. Nielsen

    Nielsen Registered

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    Hehe me think 3D would be quite enough:)
    But actually I think that the evolution in VR will force every racing sim/game to massively up their sound systems to be able to fully support the interactive 3D sound that VR demands.
    While I was an iRacing member I had a discussion with one from their staff where he surprised me positively by admitting that iRacing was researching in the possibility of applying the mentioned advanced Ambisonic surround system to iRacing.
    But he also admitted that eventhough a few games(Codemasters??) featured this sound system - then for some reason iRacing would probably not be able (anywhere soon) to follow this advanced sound footpath:-(
     
  20. HardWin

    HardWin Registered

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    Please studio 397 - add proper, true surround to the Rfactor franchise. Sound is half of the experience. Once you’ve heard the subwoofer really kicking in like in RaceRoom you know what you’ve been missing. Also AC(C) has made significant steps in the right direction. If the Rfactor sounds were only on the level of the Fonsecker mods it would be a huge improvement.
     
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