Assetto Corsa Respectful Comparison

Discussion in 'Other Games' started by Minibull, Nov 8, 2013.

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  1. Esteve Rueda

    Esteve Rueda Registered

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    In the entry the car behaves "right", I'm talking about powerslide, mid turn phase, and exists. In entrys you can lose the car at the end of braking (I lose It in my video in a turn), but that doesn't mean realistic, because the problem if as soons as you lose the rear end the car lose speed so fast and then recover grip again, with no need to countersteer, and with no options to powerslide or do "microdrift", or controlled micro sliding like you can do in rF2 in the limit, dance with the car in the edge of grip (and of course you can in real life as I showed you in Formula Abarth video and lots you can find in YT).

    I'm not sure if all of you understand what I'm talking about :eek:

    PS: and about my video with no FFB bar... It's just because is a replay, I can't race while recording due stuttering.
     
  2. kimikaze

    kimikaze Registered

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    Well, from cockpit perspective, the graphic really isn't so much better, specially looking at tracks. But TV replays, yes there is big difference. AC is there best looking pc game period.
     
  3. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    Anyone else think that the Tatuus from AC feels exactly as the F3 of MAK-corp in rf2?:confused:
     
  4. liebestod

    liebestod Registered

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    Slooooow down, not by a long shot.
     
  5. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    .
     
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  6. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    With all of Kunos' hardcore sim experience with the first netkar, then netkar pro and now the years already put into AC, I find results like the ones you and others found of overly easy, planted, non-deep seeming physics extremely disappointing on Kunos' part.

    Is this a repeat of the whole GTR2 saga where in order to give ppl a high feeling of grip and stability they ended up completely dumbing down/simplifying the car's physics?

    Your above videos and analyzations show (to me) that in order to give the AC version the same sense of grip and pwer-to-grip ratio as the real life version, that Kunos had to really dumb down the car.

    This whole idea of dumbing things down in order for the user to have a similiar to real-life experience, drives me INSANE. It's the reason I didnt spend more than a week playing stock GTR2 and it's part of the reason (but not the only reason) I could never get on with netkar pro.

    Funny thing is though after watching the above videos I checked some more AC open-wheel onboards and then some NK Pro open-wheel onboards....and I swear the NK Pro ones seem like they have more fidelity to their physics.

    Also has anyone else noticed some weird overly stiff hoping from the stiffer cars (particularly the open wheel cars) around mid corner and slightly past? Seems SUPER exaggerated.....

    I have been noticing this seeming issue in AC for a long time now. The car seems to recover grip in a weird way from a slide like there is some weird aid on that only comes on at certain times to help the car stop rotating and grip again.

    I completely understand. Every word in your post is what I have been noticing in TONS of Assetto Corsa videos, going back to even before the tech demo. It's exactly what I was thinking and you put it into words perfectly :)
     
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  7. Davy TASB

    Davy TASB Registered

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    Assetto's car interiors are a notch better than most rF2 interiors but otherwise AC aint yet the rF2 killer some people thought it might have been.
    Both sims are very good and hopefully each sim will inspire the other one to even better things.
     
  8. samuelw

    samuelw Registered

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    AC is a bright shiney object but I believe I will pass on it for a while. I believe Kunos wishes to reach a larger audience but I've always lived in a niche. Nothing wrong with wanting a large audience for your work. I note several who have argued here that rF2's physics are woefully lacking have now apparently found their sim of choice.
    sw
     
  9. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    Come on, cockpit details are x3 more detailed than any rF2 car (well, even good looking rF1 mods have better cockpits than ISI's rF2 cars), there isn't even comparison possible. Tracks are also much better (and detailed, laser scanned). And yeah, on replays AC is just 10 years ahead of rF2.

    Also lowering details gives you a framerate boost, but the quality loss isn't huge like in rF2, which looks like very like an outdated game under those circumstances.
     
  10. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    Have to admit those videos that Esteve posted support is argument very well. Anyway, by trying this you can clearly see that its quite early in development and is going to need much more time. Ill give it a go again in a couple of months.
     
  11. kimikaze

    kimikaze Registered

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    Yep, clearly AC is step back from hard core sim racer and step closer to wider not so hard core audience. Title want to be selling :) But that don't mean it has bad physics. I actually believe it has even better than rf2. I see problem more in bad translation between physics model and wheel. Controls has a lot of lag. Input is simply not so direct. There where rf2 FFB and input controls shine. Is simply the state of the art. We have in our wheel in any moment with no dealbreaking lag everything what rf2 physics model can produce.
     
  12. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    That's one thing I have noticed. Seems like it should be a skipping and shuffling from the tyres across the track, especially with the stiff vehicles. Sometimes it seems like it is almost a scripted event happening, and the car bounces all over the place while seemingly not affecting the driving.

    The other thing is it seems like the bounce movement is being taken up by some very soft suspension in the GT2 and the open wheeler, rather than the feeling of the tyre taking some of the impact. They just seem a bit soft atm, like there is no damping to some of the movements. Pretty sure the dampers won't comply too well with massive and fast impacts over and over like when the cars start bouncing around.

    Love the way the tyres chatter in this vid, something I see most at Estoril with the FR 3.5








    I'll just be enjoying it for the road cars, and some of the nice licences they have got in it. It's good that it is out too, as it gives something for everyone to enjoy now, as some people are loving it and it's what they have been looking for in a sim, which is great to see.
     
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  13. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    I am into Historics so my view is slanted...........

    For mine the pCARS/AC/iRacing style will never suit Historic Tracks, they look too clean too clinical, Monza looks like it was built last week

    I drive any Historic track in rF2 I feel like I am there.

    I actually asked on wishlist to have some stained and cracked glass in pits, and lengthen the grass even in rF2 Monza and Spa parts are like it was mowed every week.

    pCARS and AC have this long manicured looking grass which just looks wrong if you look at Historical pics.

    For mine it is like comparing Rush and Grand Prix, they are both fantastic movies, GP may have been shot on Kodak's Eastmancolor which lacked the quality of today ..........but it made me feel like I was back there.
     
  14. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    my pc is throwing AC around , now locked fps at 121fps (same as iracing ) but AC's visuals are quite pretty.

    controllers calibrated in AC 1st time no probs

    tripple screen 3d vision too

    this is such a great time to be in sim racing , happy days

    I dont see my sim software changing for a long long time now rf2/iracing/AC

    my pc is struggling to run rf2 at the moment, I'm hoping that will change again in the next build hopefully pre xmas hols ( & my controller problem in rf2 )
     
  15. realkman666

    realkman666 Registered

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    I think that a lot of people don't know that if you get the right HDR profile for the track, max shadows and at least 4xAA, rFactor 2 looks mighty fine and far from being 10 years behind Assetto Corsa.
     
  16. kro388th

    kro388th Registered

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    Its not a level playing field at this point When comparing frame rates from AC to Rf2 ,dont forget that AC has 1 car on track ,a canned sky /atmosphere nothing rely going on beyond the car on the track , no dynamic weather, sky no real-road ectt.. it should be massively faster when it only has to render a few things in real time compared to rf2's massive list of things going on in the 3d world , and/so it is faster ! also remember rf2's FFB uses 400hz while AC comes in at 250hz for those who havent seen this post over at AC have a read >
    snip>

    Hello All,

    this is Fredric at LifeOn2 Development, I develop high end FFB wheel systems, both HW and SW.

    (Improvement suggestions in green below)

    I have now had 90 min or so in AC Early Access, and I made a quick analysis of the FFB traffic it generates:

    AC Early Access uses two FFB effects, Constant Force and Damper. Damper strength is static and remains as set by the user in the control config interface.

    The Constant Force effect magnitude updates at 250 Hz, which is higher than in the first Technology Preview, where I measured it to 200 Hz. For comparison (and which most of you know by now...), rFactor2 updates at 400 Hz and iRacing at 60 Hz. With a high end wheel, it is a very significant difference between 60 and 400 Hz, and a noticeable difference between 250 and 400 Hz (and yes, higher is better )

    As some of you might remember, back when I analyzed the FFB traffic of the Technology Preview, I noticed quite a lot of redundant FFB traffic. I discussed this with Stefano, and he fixed that in the second Technology Preview (or at least he said he would). When I look at the Early Access FFB traffic, the redundant traffic is back! With the USB FFB drivers I use atm, 90% of the FFB traffic volume on the USB bus is redundant and can (should) be removed. rFactor2 does a great job here (in keeping redundant traffic low), and iRacing too after a clean up David did some time ago.

    Of course a "clever" FFB device driver stack can filter out redundant traffic using some logic, but I think most drivers are not that clever and just do what the caller asks them to.

    One more thing I noticed is that AC Early Access sets damper strength in an unorthodox way. This way of doing it leaves some room for interpretation on how it should be implemented in the FFB device firmware (the FFB protocol documentation is not crystal clear here), so IMO it is better to do it the way both iRacing and ISI, plus a reference Microsoft implementation does it.

    As for FFB feel, all-through good physics and vehicle (dynamics) models yield good FFB, and with my limited seat time I would say FFB is good in many respects, and in some extremely good.

    --- LifeOn2 Development : High End FFB Technology & Systems ---
    <snip


    Great vid of RF2's tire deformation , ill bet theirs more data in that one tire then in AC's entire car <JK>! could be why rf2 users feel theirs something left out with AC's FFB feel ,AC runs smooth with my 6970 on med settings as does rf2 while rf2 struggles a bit , i expect that with all the data that has to be processed for a single lap! I can turn things down a bit and have great racing .. Im among the people that are glad to see more options for this hobby we all have ! I will say im a little disappointed in the fact that AC is looking more like simcade than sim , proving again looks aren't everything it comes close and i will be driving it ..lol glad we have RF2 for that realism itch ;-)
     
  17. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Yes, I was referring only to cockpit view. I don't drive from replay view ;)
     
  18. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Grand Prix was shot "live" during the F1 season it was representing, so it was pretty easy to get the authentic settings and feel!!!!!!!!!!
     
  19. F2Chump

    F2Chump Registered

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    I've been warning people for YEARS that this would happen if everyone just drove and screamed OMG this "sim" rocks without any critical analysis.

    That vid of Costa getting the Arbath sideways makes GSC 2013 F3 seem more like the real thing.
    GSC 2013 is the best sim of all time on my G27, and I see no reason why that would change if I moved to another wheel as it won't change the tire model just the FFB etc.

    Btw....Great work Esteve.....
     
  20. F2Chump

    F2Chump Registered

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    Just for the record, AC still has the potential to be one of the best racing games ever made, but the rear end of these cars all feel like TC is still on even after I disable both ABS and TC.
    I should also point out that it's the "rear" that's the problem, as the road cars are rightly or wrongly loaded with understeer.
     
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