juanchioooo
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higher pressure always higher speed, less grip and less degradation
Assetto Corsa Competizione
- Thread starter fsuarez79
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FAlonso
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True, the temperature has no influence on the grip of the tire.higher pressure always higher speed, less grip and less degradation
Lazza
Registered
True, the temperature has no influence on the grip of the tire.
Of course it does, but the raw grip available increases with a bigger contact patch. rF2 should also have the capability to punish overly low pressures on long stints through higher temperatures, but this may vary from car to car.
The uneven pressure distribution could also lead to less than optimal tyre wear, something you can't prove definitively because we only have a single "wear" figure which somehow includes both physical abrasion and rubber temperature degradation.
Also should be said most cars in rF2 have a minimum tyre pressure that is mandated in the real series, meaning any dangerously low pressures aren't even available and everyone running lowest pressures for maximum grip reflects reality.
But I'm sure the shallow and simplistic statements and arguments will continue.
Mark Lloyd
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I've been sifting through all of these posts trying to decide whether to invest in ACC.
You just saved me the money. Thank you.
I'll put the money towards a seat instead.
juanchioooo
Registered
@FAlonso
the higher the pressure, the higher the tire cools before, it has less grip, and it picks up more speed, I mean in a straight line, because in a curve it grips less and is slower through the curve
creo que se entendió mal lo siento
lo indicaba en diferencia a tu post, que a mayor presión el neumático es mas rápido en recta, tu dijiste que a mayor presión era mas lento y eso no es cierto
the higher the pressure, the higher the tire cools before, it has less grip, and it picks up more speed, I mean in a straight line, because in a curve it grips less and is slower through the curve
creo que se entendió mal lo siento
lo indicaba en diferencia a tu post, que a mayor presión el neumático es mas rápido en recta, tu dijiste que a mayor presión era mas lento y eso no es cierto
juanchioooo
Registered
I think you do well ... ACC is a chestnut
FAlonso
Registered
@juanchioooo You have misunderstood me, what I am saying is that a tire with low pressure is slower in a straight line, in a corner it could have more grip, but it could also be slow in a corner due to excess heat.
The Iron Wolf
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Of course we have different preferences!
And that's why people play different games, and that's why different games exist I don't care much about visuals, and lack of SC or good CC integration, detachable parts outweighs properly positioned stickers, stripes and better graphcs. But yep, just my preference. Why not praise ACC on their forum though, or just play it instead? That said I will definitely try getting into ACC (again) when 3080 arrives, and hope it gets SC and better data output by that time.
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Despite my issues with ACC I would like to point out that it isn't an arcade game and the cars will bite you faster than in rF2. This is down to two things: first of all the limit threshold is alot smaller compared to rF2 and the FFB is less detailed (but still good). It has some outstanding strongpoints like it's fantastic sound and track selection and if GT3s are your thing, then you should give it a try. Physics and FFB have improved alot aswell compared to it's predecessor and the game will look good if you are running decent hardware. But don't be surprised if it doesn't look as good as in the screenshots.
I tried to find it, but it's been several months, so it's not that easy but even if the comment is older, it doesn't make it less true
If it were false, there would be no such reports.
It's in German but deepl translated quite good.
https://www.sport.de/news/ne2300200/ausgetrickst-mercedes-reifendruck-schachzug/
The same here in english
https://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/f1-teams-using-trick-to-reduce-tyre-pressures-20160512
The same here for Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters
https://www.motorsport-total.com/dt...-regel-sicherheits-oder-show-element-18091202
If you try to get under the given tire pressure with tricks during the measurements then you certainly don't do that to get disadvantages with the grip.
FAlonso
Registered
It is obvious that the minimum pressure is not always useful, it all depends on the track and its temperature.
Does this mean that it is realistic to use the minimum pressure in the same way on a track with 5 ° C and on one with 40 ° C?
Obviously not, in ACC you must take many things into account, the temperature on the track is very important, you must plan the pressure depending on this temperature, you also have to plan a drop in temperature at night or in the rain, also the brake temperature will have an effect on the tire.
Does this mean that it is realistic to use the minimum pressure in the same way on a track with 5 ° C and on one with 40 ° C?
Obviously not, in ACC you must take many things into account, the temperature on the track is very important, you must plan the pressure depending on this temperature, you also have to plan a drop in temperature at night or in the rain, also the brake temperature will have an effect on the tire.
This doesn't change the fact that the minimum pressure at Rfactor2 is well above critical areas, which makes it very real that you get the highest grip and it doesn't change the fact that it is not correctly simulated in ACC, which is that the grip is always highest at the supposed optimal pressure, undepending of the track temperature. Its simply wrong, that the lowest pressure is never usefull even at lowest track temperature in ACC. Live with it, even if it doesn´t fit in your world view. The more simple ACC tyre modell has its flaws like others too.
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FAlonso
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As I said earlier, ACC uses the data provided by pirelli where 29psi is ideal, relying on speculation would not be realistic.
You can view the specifications and data online yourself.
In Kunos they affirm that the teams are usually a little below, 27-28 has better results, it is clear that they have contact with the teams and drivers.
I find it hard to believe that you think teams simply exert the lowest pressure in all cases.
The main problem in F1 is that the tire has a very short optimum temperature regime, while the Gt3 tires have a wide operating regime.
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FAlonso
Registered
DTM
-Hankook Ventus competition tires are 30% lighter than normal passenger car tires.
- The construction of a competition tire lasts approximately three times longer than that of a commercial tire.
- The optimum pressure of a competition tire is between 1.90 and 2.0 bar.
- The pressure of a slick increases in the race between 0.6 and 0.8 bar. and in those of rain between 0.4 and 0.5 bar.
- The optimum temperature for better grip on a Hankook slick is between 90-110 degrees Celsius and between 60-70 degrees on rain tires.
- In competition there is a difference of about 20 degrees between the inner and the outer part of the tire.
-Hankook Ventus competition tires are 30% lighter than normal passenger car tires.
- The construction of a competition tire lasts approximately three times longer than that of a commercial tire.
- The optimum pressure of a competition tire is between 1.90 and 2.0 bar.
- The pressure of a slick increases in the race between 0.6 and 0.8 bar. and in those of rain between 0.4 and 0.5 bar.
- The optimum temperature for better grip on a Hankook slick is between 90-110 degrees Celsius and between 60-70 degrees on rain tires.
- In competition there is a difference of about 20 degrees between the inner and the outer part of the tire.
And you think that Pirelli would allow low air pressure, which gives more grip but increases the probability of damage?
Pirelli also provides the data for Formula 1 and yet less pressure was optimal for the teams.
Nobody claims that the teams always choose the lowest pressure. What does that even mean, lowest pressure, 0.0000001PSI?
Just because rFactor2's lowest possible value for GT cars is 1.4Bar or 20.3PSI doesn't mean that this is unrealistically low.
It would be a different story if you could adjust the pressure to 5 or 10 psi in rFactor2 because the tyres are getting hotter with lower pressure and rFactor2 simulates thermal degradation and even with the 1,4bar or 20psi starting pressure, the thermal degratation is higher in rFactor2 than with higher pressure.
I can only repeat, the optimum pressure specified by the manufacturer has nothing to do with maximum grip. It is always about the question of liability in case of damage.
FAlonso
Registered
Do you believe that teams in F1/DTM/GT3 always choose the lowest value allowed on all circuits?
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TJones
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It's more exceptional than usual that the lowest allowed pressure gives the best grip. One of those exceptions i can remember was in formula one a few years ago where Pirelli raised the min. allowed pressure to prevent tire damage.
Usually, you get the best contact patch (and grip), at a specific hot pressure. "Best contact patch" means now the biggest and also most even patch, which also varies a bit with load. A to low pressure for example, gives a bigger patch, but also a more uneven one, because of tread distortion. It also increases inner (carcass) temp generation through the increased flexing.
So for me, in this particular case, ACC is more realistic than rF2.
Usually, you get the best contact patch (and grip), at a specific hot pressure. "Best contact patch" means now the biggest and also most even patch, which also varies a bit with load. A to low pressure for example, gives a bigger patch, but also a more uneven one, because of tread distortion. It also increases inner (carcass) temp generation through the increased flexing.
So for me, in this particular case, ACC is more realistic than rF2.
Lazza
Registered
F1 is a bit special indeed, though the Pirelli requirements are ongoing. So all F1 teams run as low as they can, and that's further reinforced by the fact the minimum pressures are mainly set by the team with the best performance (which leads to the greatest loads on the tyres) which means the slower teams can't work the tyres hard enough, and hot enough, to make them perform - so they would run even lower pressures if they were able.
As far as the definition of the 'best contact patch', again that doesn't necessarily equate to the most raw grip. A 10% bigger contact patch that because of contact pressure variation only yields 2% extra raw grip and loses 5% performance over a stint because of detrimental temperature and wear effects is still a 2% raw grip gain. If ACC doesn't give you the 2% but you get the 5% over a stint then it's also lacking something (the initial extra grip) but is probably a better representation overall because of the stint length. I would imagine in practice they would have a sliding scale of temperature vs optimum pressure (for grip), as it's not a difficult thing to do and would arrive at a more realistic behaviour.
But again, rF2 should also be able to punish overly low pressures through temperature degradation and uneven contact patch pressure distribution - in fact the second we know it does since the QSA improvement to the model, we just can't see it (in numbers) as users. So when people talk about rF2 rewarding lowest pressures all the time they're either concentrating on raw grip (qual lap), not noticing or not consistent enough to gauge the effects over a stint, or the car/tyres in question either aren't set up correctly or the mandated pressure range doesn't actually allow for too-low pressures (like F1).
Since the lowest pressure is within a realistic range of 20.5psi(1.4 bar), you are simply within a realistic range. Of course, it would be different if you could start with 5 PSI and get some advantages out of it. The thermal degradation takes place in any case and the increased rubber and carcass temperatures between 20.5 and 23psi start pressure can be clearly seen in Motec.