Pearce, it is a lot to catch up on but it's been mentioned and discussed before. It's the direction which they desire to take the cars, it is not meant to be a simulation of the F1s.
If you don't like it don't install it. If you want discuss what rF2 should be in your opinion please open your own thread. Here it's is not the right place.
You'll find you are not alone but it is as alpha-bravo wrote above, just uninstall it with a heavy heart
"What rf2 should be in my opinion"? But it's not my opinion. Rf2 IS a SIM. It's a fact.... Why mod a car for a sim and make it inaccurate? It makes no sense! Go mod codemasters f1 if you want arcade...
Just to clarify, have ASR THEMSELVES said that these are not meant to be realistic? Or do people just assume that?
You are faster, because there is no sense of danger, so you take more risks. You also have unlimited amount of time for practicing the car/track combination. They had 3 or 4 sessions before qualifying, so teams would over compensate downforce.
It has come up due exactly to a lot of feedback on previous iterations of F1 1992 and other ensuing cars and their revisions. The stance is to provide a car that is easy and fun to drive, not something you have to struggle with engineering a setup or battling difficult to drive fast cars. This has been clearly stated but you must go through the other 35 pages to find everything... of course.
My interpretation was that ASR are looking to make the physics/tyre model as realistic as they can, It was the setup options that they looking to simplify i.e. provide default setups that are drivable out of the box without having to make lots of adjustments. I hope that they'll continue to allow us to make as many car setup adjustments as possible though and aim to make the cars as realistic as they can and I'll continue to donate. I've only really spent a short time with the MP4/6 but at first glance it seems like there may be too much wing angle available but I've not thoroughly tested.
I think that's the only possible interpretation, isn't it? ASR were talking about the setups being good to go out of the box, because a lot of folks don't have hours to spend on making setups. I don't get why people are distorting the discussion like this, talking about arcade physics. ASR comes up with a setup philosophy which is different from what we're used to, and suddenly people think the physics of the cars are dumbed down and arcade.
Interlagos is a short circuit which layout is pretty much unchanged, only the state of the layout has changed over the 25 years... The fact that it is a short layout and the difference is 6 seconds is pretty grim, actually. 6 seconds doesn't come from a good default setup philosophy. Pearce has a point. But does it change anything?
Even though the layout of Intetlagos hasn't changed much since the early 90s the road surface and curbs have. With a small change to curbs in the turn 1-2-3 sequence the cars have lost a second this year over last. That's cars that have been mostly quicker everywhere this year over last. On top of that in the tight sector 2 of the ISI/Reiza track it's easy to gain about 2 seconds depending on how much curb you use. Videos from the early 90s GPs show the cars use almost no curb through there. Same with the last turn leading onto the front straight. Even though the ASR cars aren't 100000% perfect physics wise (graphics are pretty damn spot on), with the lack of data available IMO they have done a tremendous job. TK Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G800A using Tapatalk
Carrera.4 has confirmed that all of his 1988 tracks will be brought up to rF2 standards and many of these were used in 1991 also. So although the topography may be questionable these tracks could be used for comparing laptimes. Hermanos Rodriguez 1988 has already been improved and converted although one would suspect that the real bumps will have affected laptimes.
Calling modders' work "arcade" because lap times doesn't match real life is disgusting, if I'm being totally honest here. There are a gazillion variables at play, and some random couch potato PC racer wouldn't actually have any real clue as to how realistic these cars are. No, the physics aren't perfect, but they're bloody good. Anyway, I accept the fast that the ASR guys know more about physics and car dynamics than I do, along with tons of other sim racers. It'd be damn arrogant of me to just sit here on my ass saying the cars are bad, just because the lap times doesn't match. Give some proper feedback to the team so they can improve stuff, instead of those attitude laden "meh, arcade" comments. It doesn't help anyone.
There is SOME justice to questioning the drive of the cars... I know for a fact that the historic version of the 91 mod for rF1 had a lot of real data implemented... Many different suspensions which were unique to some models... The Ferrari for example had monoshocks as an option and it was a different experience... Saying that there is no real data available is wrong. The team behind the rF1 mod were extemely picky and searched through most of the innernette to find data. Then Duke Essington implemented the finds very, very nicely. He even got the dips in the Yamaha powerband just about right, oh and the ancient gearbox! Endlessly praising stuff doesn't get us anywhere.
You're absolutely right, I wasn't trying to suggest that everything is roses and unicorns. What it does come down to is interpretation. The first version of ASR cars used the indy cars as a base, not real but most certainly not arcade. They then moved to a (well known for physics) teams idea of a mid 90s f1 car for a base. Again just a different take on it. Again, IMO, Sderenno has done a great job taking all that info and making the car drive believably enough. I loved the rF1 historic version. The guys did A LOT of work to put out what they did, I even use a lot of their stuff for my own offline play. But even their work, from some of the data I was able to find, is not 100% spot on. And their physics were based on how the interpreted early 90s tires. Which leads to the issue most rF2 mods have - tires. Until someone makes a perfect TGM for these tires everything else is gonna be an approxximation. So yes talk about all these things is good... but then again we've already been doing that here for well over a year. TK Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G800A using Tapatalk
Nearly what i wanted to say. + Interlagos was also famous for it's poor asphalt quality in the 90's + it had many bumps (also in the corners) + When watching some onboard laps i noticed that some corners seem to be noticeable tighter than the ISI track. IMHO the most important thing is that the mods are fun to drive. After testing the 95 and 96 Ferrari my opinion is that ASR is on the right way. These cars are fun to drive. Glad to see that the setup options are back. I can't imagine an open wheeler mod without setup adjustments. Very positive is the wide range of wing settings.
Exactly but some folks here won't have any of it. They'll go to battle and hunt in the name of modders... without being asked. ASR is certainly well aware of things, having received extensive "proper" feedback, and also I am sure they do what they can with what they know. It has been clearly discussed and stated here before about own limitations, still learning, complexity of the game, figuring things out, etc. I would like these beautiful cars to simulate their real life counterparts with all their benefits and challenges, so I can experience it on my own. If I suck and can't drive, I can turn on any of the numerous ingame assists to help instead of ask for the base work to be adjusted to fit me.
The key is probably found in the TGM, indeed... The amount of detail in the rF1 mod is incredible... I was part of the test team myself... For every build there was just added more details to the cars... All the engines with their respective upgrades throughout the seasons... Special Monza/Hockenheim engines... Suspensions also changed throughout the season... Like I mentioned before, the 642/643 were using both monoshock and non-monoshock front suspensions thoughout the season. All those little things add up. I know I'm pretty sure you're capable of driving any car within reason
