Are the open wheels cars as exploitable as the GTs?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Conrad, May 28, 2022.

  1. Conrad

    Conrad Registered

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    I seen videos about how bad the GT cars can be abused, but I can't find any information about formula cars. Also, is there good servers for hot lap competitions? I don't like racing head to head. Mp4 looks fun.
     
  2. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    I think the exploitability of the GT cars is overstated. Setup wise, in an Esports setting where even the tiniest advantage is important and everyone is within 0.01% of each other, maybe it's a bit of a bigger deal. But normally speaking, if you just lower the rear wing a bit and soften the rear end and lower the fuel load, that is more than enough to get you to the top provided you have the skill. A skilled driver using a default setup will EASILY demolish a less skilled driver using some trick setup.

    As far as the GT cars being "too easy to slide", maybe there's something to it, but when you are on the 'real' limit in rF2 the cars take a LOT of skill to slide smoothly... and when you slide you DO waste time.

    It's just that someone who is driving aggressively and doing little slides will be way faster than someone driving smooth but being nowhere close to the limit. When you are on on the actual limit, smooth with minimal sliding is almost always faster.

    I don't really know the answer to your question, but you can do epic slides in both the GT cars and the open wheel cars, just like can be done in real life, but it wastes time, just like real life.
     
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  3. Supa

    Supa Registered

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    What about min tyre pressures and slip angle? Definitely Broken!!! Saying it's not doesn't make it so.
     
  4. Supa

    Supa Registered

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    And don't get me started with the sudden slow speed unsavable oversteer slide out of nowhere when you were correcting these fine earlier!!..
     
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  5. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    From my testing of mp4-13 ,marussia and formula pro they are not that slide friendly as gt cars are,
    aero exploits also won't work.
    The slip angle issues are still present in mp4-13 and marussia IMO, where i think there is too much grip when you are already understeering.
    formula pro on other hand has very tight slip angles, you can't just keep turning front a tiny bit more and expect it to grip as good as gt cars.

    But IMO, these steering inputs are NOT really fast, minimum steering through a corner will be faster and less wear on front tyres.

    I suggest you buy formula pro, it is the best open wheel in rfactor 2 especially physics wise and sound wise (as both of these are upto latest standards).
    there are 2 packs from which you can get this car , so look for them before buying the car individually.
     
  6. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    No offence, but that could be all in your head. If you apply a bit too much front slip angle and gas it, yes you can oversteer wildly... to the point it can feel broken because with just SLIGHTLY less front slip angle, you would have done an tiny easy to control slide.

    This reflects my real world experience pretty much exactly... with smallish front slip angle I can gas it and control slides with literally no issue at all. But dial in too much front slip angle and gas it and in about a split second you're facing the wrong way and wondering wtf happened.

    Self aligning torque can also decrease with front slip angle, so for argument sake if you have a lot of front slip angle and hit the gas, the SAT might not be as strong and instant (and with a low end wheel basically non existent). Honestly, rF2 is only as good as the wheel you're using imo.
     
  7. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    It makes me laugh hearing those youtubers talking about physics exploits in rF2 and taking for granted that every other sim physics are perfect.

    I think the possible errors are exagerated for user views, and probably it's also lots of misunderstanding from youtubers that know nothing about cars and/or physics.

    I'm not an expert but I can see how some people talking about physics aren't experts either.

    I don't expect physics to be perfect in a realtime simulation, but as long as we all race with the same physics I'm OK.

    I wouldn't listen much to youtubers and just race with the great tire physics no other sim has.

    Lower tires pressure is always associated to better grip, how could be to the contrary? Some sims/games have better grip in a limited pressure range, I don't know how's that more reallistic. The drawback to having very low pressure is that the tire wears faster and can blow. This is where rFactor 2 can improve, but please, lower pressure can't result in lower grip. I'd like someone to explain me the physics of that logic in case I'm wrong.

    What's the problem with slip angles?
     
  8. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    Why do you say you're understeering when having too much grip? That's incoherent.
     
  9. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    A small clip i wanted to share , it is of fpro on Nordschleife. >

    https://streamable.com/q0lygn

    here i just wanted to demonstrate the extent of power oversteer u can have with this car on this track (other smoother tracks aren't too far from it either). also note that this is just a 2nd gear corner, so it was more easier to mange this "slide" , on 3rd and 4th gear one it is more difficult due to aero making car more peaky in terms of grip.
    (not saying that u can't go oversteer more than this, but after this it becomes more unpredictable territory.....my driving philosophy wants to be on control of car 100% of the time if possible, also going more oversteer is absolutely slower anyways so my ego ain't that hurt :D).

    such a fun experiment putting F1 like car on fast narrow bumpy circuit, this is hardest combo i have done in simracing.
    screw the aero ...higher RH and softer spring rate FTW on such tracks lol, u want that tyres to be on ground as much as possible, follow surface irregularities... for predictable sliding behavior. I could still go higher RH and softer on the setup i used in this clip....but i think i need to train more rather than car.

    after this car i drove NSX type R on same track....road cars just eats bump and kerbs, so much compliant over bad surfaces it was different kind of joy.
     
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  10. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    The problem is that because people in real life arn't insane lunatics they don't push the car/tyre to the absolute bleeding edge of the limits of physics around every single corner - let alone practice doing that day in and day out for hours at a time.

    So when people in a simulator who have insane levels of skill push the absolute outer limits of what's possible in every single corner, and practice for several hours of the day doing that, people note that it dosn't look like real life driving, and therefore physics fake.
     
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  11. Conrad

    Conrad Registered

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    I start to notice this slow speed sudden spin too. Like it jerking the car with more power than you put in the pedal. I didn't notice being able to abuse slides with low wing and roll bar at higher speed with open wheel, gladly.

    Still want to be able to do hot laps against others. Might buy the Indy or Pro then.
     
  12. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    rF2 has its flaws, though recent cars seem to have improved tyre behaviour at least, but sometimes when you read people complaining of sudden spins not being realistic you wonder how any professional real life driver can ever lose control with all that realism, seat of the pants feel, zero latency, perfect FFB, and infinite FPS. And yet they do.
     
  13. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    Gust of wind
     
  14. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    well they also got more variables to cause the spin, down to quantum level physics, which probably even top F1 teams haven't explored yet.
    then there are more bigger problems like random gust of wind , oil/wet/dirt spots.
    if anything i think it would be easier to spin out IRL than a controlled environment such a simulator.
     
  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Well, yeah, but sometimes it'll happen without any significant external factors too. In real life there's no game to blame. Here there is.

    I don't think we need to worry too much about quantum physics in comparison to limits of human perception and repeatability, and the inherent latency of any simulation environment.

    Wind though, well, there's another rusty wishlist item indeed.
     
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  16. ebeninca

    ebeninca Registered

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    They have increased the limit of the minimal tire pressures and camber exactly to avoid this exploits, besides that, the minimal pressure is faster for qualy, but have you ever tried to do an entire 1 hour stint with different pressures and compare the results?
     
  17. ebeninca

    ebeninca Registered

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    I have some experience with the SMMG Formula 3 mod, very well done indeed, you can always extract a bit of time by doing little slides, for qualy it works great, but for races, you'll gonna burn the tires and suddenly lost the control if you keep doing it every lap.

    The biggest difference from GT cars is the rear wing, in GT seems like the lowest wing is always faster, no matter the circuit, in Formula cars the wing is the most important thing to be ajusted, if the circuit demands high downforce and you set low downforce, you gonna be destroyed on lap times.
     
  18. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    Pretty surprising that an OP from someone who hasn't driven the cars and simply remarks on probable click bait video gets so much traction (see what I did there).
     
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  19. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    tbf , from what i have been told that GT cars do need some aero fixes along with latest tyres "model".
    i'm goona get my hype meter up and hope that they not only fix the above , but also add traction loss (in both braking and on throttle) onboard indicators ....also remaster/remake of older wrong interiors such as in RSR's.
    too much ? probably....but this all of this will jump start my love for GT cars once again.
     
  20. Bernat

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    And there's a lot of factors in the simulation like terrain irregularity, both in surface and grip, the car flooring, damaged suspensions, flat spots in tires and more variables in the simulation than we think we can control. Adding to that, inexperienced drivers often forget about the motor braking in the rear caused by downshifting early.
     

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