Apex Modding GT3 - 2012 (v1.09 )

Lgel said:
Yes Alpha-Bravo, you are totally right.

Have you ever heard of a racing car that doesn't require counter steering?

I haven't, so if you never need to counter steer when you push your car, may be something is wrong with your setup or driving style.

For a given car and setup, driver inputs affects a lot understeer (tire temp widget is your friend here).

Understeer in high speed corners is mainly cured by aero tweaks and ride height -affects diffuser efficiency-, in slow turns it is mainly cured by suspension tuning (mechanical grip).

Don't believe that Alpha-Bravo's setup is very far from default setup, but even with his setup, it requires an adequate driving style to obtain the balanced tire wear he was able to obtain (most drivers would describe his car as understeering).

As he was able to use the four wheels of his car his lap times were better than those who drove mainly with two tires.

To prepare a race, remember that RF2 options allows you to run with 3 times fuel consumption and tire wear, so you can simulate an hour stint in 20 minutes, with both high and low fuel conditions.

Cheers.
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Fact is that gt 3 cars a generall oversteer cars because of abs/esp/tc aids. So without these aids u should make easy setups where u spin out because of to much oversteer. But i only test the z4 and this is not possible for me, it does not feel
like a gt 3 car should feel. I don t know the reason because im not in modding. I only know something is going really rong maybe tiremodel ? i don t know.
 
Fact is that esp is forbidden since a few years and many gentleman driver are outside in the GT3 series, so the cars has to be very easy driveable. without heavy critical reactions
 
After extensive work with setups for BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes, and McLaren (still WIP), the default setups are awful IMHO. Default shocks are just all over the map and you have to start from scratch with all of them. Brake bias and max pedal force also way off. The Ferrari I had to tear down to a "spring-only" setup and work it back into shape.

It's been a great learning exercise to build setups for these, but the defaults could have been far more driveable without giving away speed secrets. If Apex Modding is willing, I'll gladly donate default setups that are more in-line with what people expect (or at least what I think they'd expect).
 
Emery said:
After extensive work with setups for BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes, and McLaren (still WIP), the default setups are awful IMHO. Default shocks are just all over the map and you have to start from scratch with all of them. Brake bias and max pedal force also way off. The Ferrari I had to tear down to a "spring-only" setup and work it back into shape.

It's been a great learning exercise to build setups for these, but the defaults could have been far more driveable without giving away speed secrets. If Apex Modding is willing, I'll gladly donate default setups that are more in-line with what people expect (or at least what I think they'd expect).
Click to expand...

I would vote yes please. The more popular these cars become, the better. They will never be compromised for accessibility to newbies with competent set-ups...but many, many people will save time and effort repeating the steps that Emery (or others) already pursued. Why reinvent the wheel or make needless work. Even optimized set-ups will still need a bit of tweaking to suit your personal driving style or preferences, but being delivered 90% of the way there is how a real racer driving for a real team would experience the car. They wouldn't think of letting someone drive the car if there was a known higher risk of an off or even just slower lap times.
 
Emery said:
After extensive work with setups for BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes, and McLaren (still WIP), the default setups are awful IMHO. Default shocks are just all over the map and you have to start from scratch with all of them. Brake bias and max pedal force also way off. The Ferrari I had to tear down to a "spring-only" setup and work it back into shape.

It's been a great learning exercise to build setups for these, but the defaults could have been far more driveable without giving away speed secrets. If Apex Modding is willing, I'll gladly donate default setups that are more in-line with what people expect (or at least what I think they'd expect).
Click to expand...
I already have sent them a setup for the Ferrari which is in testing for a while. First feedbacks are good.[emoji4]
So I would suggest you to send them your setups and see what happens...
 
You are wellcome to publish your setups for everyone to try and use them, there is already a dedicated section in this forum for ISI cars and tracks (which has very little life).

You can create a thread for APEX GT3 mod or use:

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/27658-Sharing-Setups?p=406141&viewfull=1#post406141

no need of APEX GT3 modding team endorsement for that.

If you still believe that setups are universal and absolute, and that you know what people expect, go for it.

The same car in RF2 with the same setup will be very differently evaluated by two drivers even if both are very experienced.

I have downloaded more than 50 setups for RF2 cars, only one made by David O' Reilly worked for me (some of his setups were too edgy for me, as he is a far better driver than I am).

Default setups were derived from race setups (from beta testers or from me) tuned using telemetry, with the goal of controlling tire wear on long stints as well as speed.

They have more understeer tuned in because less experienced drivers struggle when the car looses it's tail on the limit. We left brake balance and strength to be defined by users.

Default setups were tamed down by doing the following:

- more rear wing
- softer rear ARB and rear springs
- stiffer front ARB and front springs.

They are perfectly drivable for me, and I checked that with them I could beat AI at 100 % in Portugal (I define myself as an average driver).

I am sorry no to agree with the idea that you will loose your time working on setups as someone said, this tunability of RF2 cars is what makes them different from Mario Karts (excellent game in it's genre), for good or worse RF2 is a very technical sim, and by the fact, not the better suited for people looking for instant rewards.

Cheers and happy new year.
 
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gkz said:
Fact is that gt 3 cars a generall oversteer cars because of abs/esp/tc aids. So without these aids u should make easy setups where u spin out because of to much oversteer. But i only test the z4 and this is not possible for me, it does not feel
like a gt 3 car should feel. I don t know the reason because im not in modding. I only know something is going really rong maybe tiremodel ? i don t know.
Click to expand...
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...T3-mod-(0-930)?p=404796&viewfull=1#post404796
Cheers.
 
Andregee said:
Fact is that esp is forbidden since a few years and many gentleman driver are outside in the GT3 series, so the cars has to be very easy driveable. without heavy critical reactions
Click to expand...

i say critical reaction in terms of good oversteer without aids if u want to have it when u make ur setup. u understand that they play with 3 aids ? that is why it is so easy driveable. there videos from uwe alzen who explains the setup and behaviour of the z4 in detail parts. For example a gt 3 car is allready from the basics more oversteer than a egt z4 with has no aids. I just want that mods getting better and thats my opinion if the rest says it has no understeer its just setup ok than. I could not fix anything in setups.
 
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Maybe the rear tire wear is a bit to high. I get after 10 laps approx. 6%-10% more tire wear on the rear (e.g. 96 front and 87 rear), depending on setup settings.

//Edit: forgot to report: i saw some strange artefacte today, was my first longer session with this mod. Some very short white flashes and missing car textures
 
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Juergen-BY said:
Maybe the rear tire wear is a bit to high. I get after 10 laps approx. 6%-10% more tire wear on the rear (e.g. 96 front and 87 rear), depending on setup settings.

//Edit: forgot to report: i saw some strange artefacte today, was my first longer session with this mod. Some very short white flashes and missing car textures

View attachment 18907
Click to expand...

Of which mod are you speaking, APEX GT3 or Flat 6?

Thanks and happy new year.
 
Lgel said:
You are wellcome to publish your setups for everyone to try and use them, there is already a dedicated section in this forum for ISI cars and tracks (which has very little life).

You can create a thread for APEX GT3 mod or use:

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/27658-Sharing-Setups?p=406141&viewfull=1#post406141

no need of APEX GT3 modding team endorsement for that.

If you still believe that setups are universal and absolute, and that you know what people expect, go for it.

The same car in RF2 with the same setup will be very differently evaluated by two drivers even if both are very experienced.

I have downloaded more than 50 setups for RF2 cars, only one made by David O' Reilly worked for me (some of his setups were too edgy for me, as he is a far better driver than I am).

Default setups were derived from race setups (from beta testers or from me) tuned using telemetry, with the goal of controlling tire wear on long stints as well as speed.

They have more understeer tuned in because less experienced drivers struggle when the car looses it's tail on the limit. We left brake balance and strength to be defined by users.

Default setups were tamed down by doing the following:

- more rear wing
- softer rear ARB and rear springs
- stiffer front ARB and front springs.

They are perfectly drivable for me, and I checked that with them I could beat AI at 100 % in Portugal (I define myself as an average driver).

I am sorry no to agree with the idea that you will loose your time working on setups as someone said, this tunability of RF2 cars is what makes them different from Mario Karts (excellent game in it's genre), for good or worse RF2 is a very technical sim, and by the fact, not the better suited for people looking for instant rewards.

Cheers and happy new year.
Click to expand...

+1
I thought the default setup are quite good only had to make a few tweeks to suit my driving style I llike the car a tad oversteery
I think this is a fantastic mod with very drivable cars straight out of the box
 
mrmat01 said:
+1
I thought the default setup are quite good only had to make a few tweeks to suit my driving style I llike the car a tad oversteery
I think this is a fantastic mod with very drivable cars straight out of the box
Click to expand...
Thanks for your appreciation, your opinion is as valuable as Emery's, it just shows how difficult it is to provide basic setups that suit everybody, it was one of the goals of update 0.93 to provide setups drivable out of the box (without any driving aid).

Cheers.
 
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Yoss, the Paypal donation link in the first post goes to a Paypal page in French - do you know how I can change this to English?
 
Three 40 laps races have been run on the same track, Mid-Ohio.

The first race was won by Alpha-Bravo driving a Mc Laren, tyres lasted all race.

The second race saw Enrico Tsunami driving a F458 win, tyres lasted all race, followed by Lestrat driving a Z06 and Alpha-Bravo driving a Mc Laren (2nd and 3rd pitted once).

The third race saw Bumble, that set numerous fast laps during practice on a wide variety of cars, win driving a Z06, second was Tosch driving an SLS, third was Chesco on a Z06, (1st and second didn't pit, so tyres lasted 40 laps).

As an expert said on this tread :

"The only car with a well balanced tyre wear is the Camaro , for sure with original physics. You can adjust the Setup with the others Cars, but than you will get an unbalanced driving behaviour. The tyre degradation is much to High imho. I know from a real Gt3 race Driver that they can push the tyres a whole hour without loosing noticable GripThe only car with a well balanced tyre wear is the Camaro , for sure with original physics. You can adjust the Setup with the others Cars, but than you will get an unbalanced driving behaviour."

So my most sincere congratulations to the three different race winners, who were able on three different cars, none being the Camaro, to control cars with "an unbalanced driving behaviour" for 40 laps, with the same set of tyres, on a very demanding track like Mid-Ohio.

Cheers and have fun racing.

P.S. Zandvoort 2011 GT3 real pilot interview:

And yes, believe it or no, he was managing his tyres, as he said "it was all about managing the tyres". The poor guy had a car with very poor physics, very unrealistic, surely an APEX GT3 design.

Nr44 Heico Motorsport Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3
“We are happy. The target was to bring the team championship home. I had a pretty bad qualifying; I couldn’t find a free lap to do a time. My target in the qualifying was to do at least as fast as Dominik did, but that wasn’t the case. We started from 12th. I had a pretty good start. After that, it was all about managing the tyres and trying to give Dominik the best car possible, and that’s what I did. I was behind the little train in front of me which had a good race pace in the first stint, but I was checking my mirrors more than I was looking ahead, managing my tyres. Then I gave Dominik the car and he was lapping 2 seconds faster than the cars in front of him, and that’s what I was supposed to do and that’s what I did. We’re very happy to have the team championship in our pocket.”

http://gt3europe.com/reports.php
 
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