Apex Modding GT3 - 2012 (v1.09 )

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by yoss, Jan 25, 2014.

  1. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Probably... people like to say a car is not balanced while they either don't know how to deal with setup or does not consider some cars fits them better than others (i.e they are not aliens that can adapt to every car)
     
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  2. rocky289

    rocky289 Registered

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    Would that mean for example a McLaren from the ADAC GT group is the same specs as FIA or Bathurst 24H
     
  3. rocketjockeyr6

    rocketjockeyr6 Registered

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    One could say that I am fast, but Im certainly no alien. ;) I am usually pretty handy with a setup though. :)
    A friend and I had a disagreement about the BoP with these APEX GT's(also thought the 458 was too quick) so we did loads of testing.
    Some cars do have a specific advantage with certain circuits, but this happens in the real world too, hence the weight penalties.
    I know some leagues edit the mod files per track to establish a better BoP. Takes a bit of work though, cuz you have to be exact on which car has an advantage per track.
     
  4. rocketjockeyr6

    rocketjockeyr6 Registered

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    Should be damn close, if not identical. The word is, "homologation".
     
  5. yoss

    yoss Registered

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    updated template.rar with bgt3 psd in first post
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
  6. VirusGR42

    VirusGR42 Registered

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    I decided to download the bentley templates but for some reason the wireframe doesn't seem to work correctly. When i paint the car black (painted layer 2 black), the wireframe is not seen at all. Even if i paint the wireframe a diffrent colour, it still doesn't show up. I suppose that this shouldn't be happening or am i doing something wrong?
     
  7. yoss

    yoss Registered

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    wireframe layer is just here for help , you need to change the layer propriety for see him once you have finish created your skin
     
  8. VirusGR42

    VirusGR42 Registered

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    Yeah i have it at the top and it still doesn't show up.
     
  9. yoss

    yoss Registered

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    don t see anykind of problem with black skin ...
    [​IMG]
     
  10. VirusGR42

    VirusGR42 Registered

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    Oh i am dumb. I hadn't added a layer, i thought you needed to use one of the layers which it came with. Sorry!
     
  11. Christos Segkounas

    Christos Segkounas Registered

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    We are into our 2nd season of racing with this mod and time to give some feedback.
    I had my last race last night and will be taking a break from this series for a while so no better time than now.
    Reason for offering this feedback is all the complaints I have read about the Ferrari being OP, something that is inconsistent with our own findings.
    So, kicking things off:

    1)Camaro.
    If there's one car that can be accused of being OP it is this one.
    Yes, it is the one no one wanted to drive because they did not like it.
    Then someone comes along and does drive it and destroys everything in site.
    Meanwhile the rest of the world are watching and suddenly there's more and more people jumping onto the Camaro steamroller.
    I was reading some feedback from other leagues about the cars and at some point those guys went racing at Monza and all of them showed up in Ferraris because supposedly it was the hottest thing to have there thanks to it's top speed and all.
    That was lol to read.
    The Camaro rapes the Ferrari so hard at Monza they shouldn't even be racing in the same category.
    It prompted one of the very best drivers we have, to start complaining about the Camaro.
    Last but not least, every midfielder struggling in their whatever car who jump in to the Camaro to see what all the fuss is about are magically transformed.
    /end

    2)Ferrari
    Nice handling, yeah fast.
    We've had some of the best drivers drive it and it's always up there.
    Never was the fastest though.
    Managed to win one race, at Spa.
    A race the Camaro took pole, fastest lap by a whole second, opened a 10 sec lead and rising fast and run out of fuel in the pits because it's pit box was taken, so yeah.
    Nice car, popular, well balanced, let's move on.

    3) BMW
    After the Camaro experience I jumped to the BMW because I needed a new challenge.
    This time I was not alone though, some very good drivers followed suit before the season kicked off.
    2 races two wins for the BMW.
    The car is unbalanced, snap oversteer on turn-in and power understeer on exit.
    Your front tires will always suffer so you have to tune in as much oversteer as your skill will allow, but it's never enough to take you to balanced tire wear front to back before the car starts to kill even the very best.
    The definition of a skill-based car.
    Very fast but not for the inexperienced.
    Love the handling though and the challenge.

    4)Porsche
    A very popular choice, most popular atm.
    Never really a front runner.
    Until a couple of competent drivers joined us and they showed that the Porsche is really up there.

    Rest:
    SLS: unpopular.
    Last season every race I went with the Camaro I would roll out this one and the BMW for a test.
    Some tracks the BMW would go faster easier, others it was the SLS.
    I have no doubt the SLS is up there but I'd be the first to admit it remains unproven in our league due to drivers not being interested in it.
    Same for Corvette and McLaren.
    The Macca has a big question mark over it.
    While the Corvette I have reasons to believe it's also up there with the rest once the driver tunes out the understeer, the McLaren remains a mystery.
    Could it be the weak link?
    Cannot say for sure and I am not inclined to find out myself.
    No one's ever managed to match the rest with it, including a very competent individual who is still persisting with it though, because he enjoys the challenge of taming a car and extracting everything out of it, as much as I do.

    Any questions I'd be happy to answer if I can.

    Also, if there's anything that can be done with the bug where a car catches some invisible object on a curb and is damaged and launched violently into the air please do your best to bring it in.
    It affects the BMW mostly with the Corvette coming in second.
    Rest of the cars don't seem to have that problem.
    A reminder of what it is I'm talking about:



     
  12. Gijs van Elderen

    Gijs van Elderen Member

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    It's a Donnington bug. I've seen it happen with other car mods too.
     
  13. Christos Segkounas

    Christos Segkounas Registered

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    Affects at least the BMW on many tracks.
    Donnington was the first time we run into this issue and it was pretty bad, in fact that's not even the most dangerous curb on that track for launching the bimmer and Corvette.
    The first video is from Watkins Glen where there are at least another 2 curbs the car got launched on during practice.
    Also there's a big issue at Racerfactor version of Spa where the BMW will get launched over the right curb through Eau Rouge, a curb that is very difficult to avoid throughout a 60min race plus costs time constantly trying to stay off it.
    There's a similar issue affecting the GP3 mod at Zandvoort you can read about in the appropriate thread.
     
  14. andrea_274

    andrea_274 Registered

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    I can confirm that BMW have this problem for sure also with Sebring and with Watkins Glen.
    I think it's really car related.
     
  15. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Are you sure that just wasn't a video of me testing driving the cars? :) Wow! Especially the Donnington curb...car was essentially straight, it wasn't running fully over the curb...just found some seam and launched. This would be so much easier to debug in GTR2. Just cut and paste certain sections of the hdv until you find the area that is causing it. My hunch is the rebound travel is either grossly undersprung or has too short a travel. The tire could.....COULD...be coming in contact with the underside of the wheel well and the contact transferss all the vertical energy the tire is absorbing right to the car.
     
  16. Gijs van Elderen

    Gijs van Elderen Member

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    Guys, these are all known track bugs.

    Sebring: known issue

    Racerfactor SPA: known issue

    Donnington: known issue


    Try Silverstone, it has more violent curbs then these tracks. If it happen there. It's a car bug.
     
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  17. Christos Segkounas

    Christos Segkounas Registered

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    Arghhh, it has become apparent to me for quite some time now that this is not an easy one to fix.
    OK, I seem to recall that during testing at Donnington long before we went there to race I had this happen to me once in the Camaro.
    The Camaro is an ISI car, not an Apex one.
    Also, during a whole season of testing and racing the Camaro this never happened again, either at Donnington or anywhere else.
    So, where does that leave us.
    The way I understand it, it all starts as a track design flaw.
    Then, depending on the car, there's a lower or higher likely hood that they will be affected.
    Now, moving on to the cars themselves.
    What is it about the BMW that makes it so prone to this bug that it gets affected on almost any track?
    Apparently ride hide and spring adjustments do seem to have an impact in the frequency of the event.
    However you have formulas hugging the ground going through that same curb not getting launched.
    So there's more to it than that.
    It seems to be apparently a combination of both car and track design flaws.
    Is there something in the underbody mess of the bimmer that sticks out?
    I don't know.
    But I can only conclude that there IS something in the BMW model that makes it particularly vulnerable.
    Apex modders have nothing to do with track curb design, but they can at least investigate what it is about the BMW and Corvette that puts them at very high risk of this happening, relative to the rest of the cars.
    I had another quick test last night at Spa and there's no doubt, the BMW cannot be raced there, that curb will launch it almost every single time and you are travelling at a rate of knots through Eau Rouge meaning that , even with low damage on the server, such a launch results in a huge off, possibly affecting other drivers around you as well.
     
  18. rocketjockeyr6

    rocketjockeyr6 Registered

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    Had this(crazy flip) happen to me in EnduRacers Ferrari at 24hr Nordschleife. It was on the GP portion, in the 1st turn of the Schumi S, after Dunlop. And my ride height was actually one of the tallest of the ~35 of us. Only happened once, and no one else was affected(thank Peter).

    Its unfortunate but it happens. Personally Ive experienced this maybe 5 times in my rF2 career(about 5 years now).

    Funny though... in the hours(not much, I know) of testing my mate and I did, we couldnt find an obvious advantage like that(speaking of the Camaro). Maybe its just a better default setup? I know plenty of people who are fast as hell, but couldnt set the thing up to save their lives. :p I also know of a few who are just the opposite. :rolleyes:

    I'll have to do some testing with that Z4 at Spa, have a look-see if I can replicate that event.

    Cheers all
    rocket
     
  19. yoss

    yoss Registered

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    as you say mister it s had become apparent that yes , it s a very hard bug to fix , like was the old bug when all the car hit the ground everywhere .
    the collision model is like isi say he need to be , less than 100 poly , what is mystery is that we tweak the undertray second parameter in the hdv for avoid physics problem.and have once again a physic collsion model a bit more high , second mystery is why camaro , who is basicly isi physics have same problem , and apparently the last radical car also have the problem .
    for the moment we don't know how to fix the bug ,as you show the bug seem to happen on third party track and also on official track content .so...anyway we don't have talent for edit tracks
    what we can say is , after all the laps we made on the nordscheiffe for prepare the b.o.p and the next p1 24h with the benty is that he don't happen on the nord and with the benty !!
     
  20. Christos Segkounas

    Christos Segkounas Registered

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    Thanks for the feedback Yoss, good to know you are aware and have done your best for this.

    Having raced the Camaro last season I could write pages about it and how to unlock it's speed.
    Not appliccable here.
    The default setup is exactly the same as on the ISI Camaro, except that thing is a handful and this one is an understeery beast, so the physics have apparently been toned down on this one.
    So here's what I can do for you, emery has a thread where he has posted setups for all the Apex cars.
    Supposedly they are really outdated but I can tell you that most of them still work better than the defaults anyway.
    His Camaro setup in particular is quite good and although still quite a bit more understeery than I would personally like it will nevertheless give you a glimpse into the talents of the car, I suggest you give that one a go.
    As for the Z4 at Spa, so long as it is the racerfactor version of it, the moment you ride the right curb going into Eau Rouge you are in for a nasty surprise, I can guarrantee you that much ;)
     

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