Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by yoss, Jan 25, 2014.
not possible we are online together
Can you test the cars at Portugal and send us your laptime? I was able to do around 1.34-1.36.
Also, please test at Silverstone. I managed to do a 2.00.xxx with the mclaren, just like real life (http://www.blancpain-gt-series.com/)
No, The Ferrari is so much oversteering. Unbelivable strange! Porsche is good! I just need to take a little bit of braking into the corner- zack!!! "wrong way" , tail in course direktion! That make no fun.
But Porsche is fine (i dont try the other types). easy to drive, easy to handle, very calm very relaxed. very like 928.
But Ferrari is horrible...
Brake bias full forward makees it a bit better, but a standard setup should be (more or less) drivable for everybody on every track.
Portugal GP, right? Almost all of them can do 1:32s with not that much rubber. 1:33 constantly on race pace with SLS, Z4 for example. So they are capable of doing some ok times and consistent performance on longer run, especially when the tyres get into their peak performance window. But you know that! ^^
@Startoliner As for cars doing strange things on braking I was wondering what that might be causing that (ofc when doing things the right way, threshold braking and late, slow shifting down). It appeared to be engine torque off the throttle. Once changed with SLS which I spent lots of time with made the braking and slow corner entry a lot more predictable. As far as I know the rest had the same treatment. I'm too busy lately to hop in and check what you're doing right or wrong (given you can't send me telemetry of your runs). As soon as the weekend starts I will be able to help if there's sth I can help you with. As for now try keeping the car straight as you brake and increase power and coast values. Use throttle to balance the car.
Portugal, no rubber.
9 Laps 458: best 1:38.12
in most corners i was struggeling -
One and first lap in 911: 1:36.18 (errorfree)
458 is not good!
Maybe i become a porsche driver.........
In comaprison the 911 is so easy to drive...
There is no doubt there is a problem with your setup or instalation of this car.
A driver who lapped in 2' 00 with default setup said it was too understeery (as designed).
My own setup is more edgy than default and I use 52/48 brakes without any problem.
Don't make a big problem of this, it's a sim game, but just a game, no more than a game, don't let it spoil your enjoyment of life.
If you feel this car is undrivable, then it is undrivable, you are right, if other think otherwise no problem, your feelings are the only important thing (the guy that laps in 1' 58 '340 with this car is just an alien, forget it) , choose an other car of the mod, or load the previous version you prefered.
Cheers and have fun racing.
0.930 first impressions:
Cycled once through the cars with default setups, starting with Ferrari. Yeah, I had the same oversteery problems being mentioned. McLaren was definitely my fast car on the first round (whoa, power-on understeer!) with the Corvette being next in line. The BMW & Mercedes both felt like they should be fast, but I couldn't get there. Porsche felt right, but I wasn't in tune with it. BMW lacks braking power compared to the other cars, which struck me as odd considering it feels lighter.
Second round, I only revisited Ferrari, Porsche, & Mercedes. Ferrari "undriveable" problem went away now that I was more in tune with the rest of the cars. Upon reflection, it has a severe throttle-lift oversteer that makes it seem initially undriveable, so perhaps a default setup that reduces the tendency will help. Since it is throttle-lift oversteer, changing brake bias will not help. The other noticeable Ferrari characteristic is a total lack of power below 4k rpm; felt like less than any commuter car, so it's difficult to make it crawl. I melded better with the Porsche on second pass. Mercedes second pass also went better and I noticed throttle-lift oversteer, but not as severe as the Ferrari. Mercedes is still my slowest car.
Graphics notes: Porsche shift lights not working, Mercedes driver window has odd shimmery effect (*), some interior has flickering textures (sorry, can't remember which and you probably know?) and the texture quality across the interiors is still inconsistent, though the lighting effects are excellent. Screenshots while picking cars could do with updating so they're not oversaturated.
AI notes: Nice improvement and thanks for that!
(*) Just realized, when I saw the Mercedes from the outside during a race, that the shimmery effect is the heat haze.
First of all, thank you for this great mod. It's quite an improvement from the 0.928 version. I raced today at Sebring, Mosport and Jerez (offline) against 27 ai. I created some virtual drives for all different cars. In the posche i put Nick Tandy, in the SLs Maxi Buhk, in the Ferrari Pierre Kaffer, in the Corvette Diego Alessi, in the BMW Maxim Martin and finaly Alvaro Parente in the Mc Laren. All of them were given the same talent:
Aggression, 75, speed 98, quali speed 100, wet speed 93, startskill 96, crash 10, completed laps 83, minimum racing skill 88 and composure 75.
All other virtual drivers were given lowers specs.
I wanted to test if the cars were a bit equal on different tracks. I ran a full free practice (1 hour) and after that a quali of 40 minutes with he max of 12 laps. Finaly a race of 2,5 hours.
In an ideal world, the top drivers for each car would battle with eachother, leaving the rest of the field with the crumbs. For the record: ai at 100% strenght, with 0 limiting.
In all 3 races on the different tracks the corvette and the ferrari were pretty equal and the fastest, mc laren were third fastest, pretty equal with the SLS, but in all 3 races the porsche and especcialy the BMW were the slowest. So my top Z4 driver Maxim Martin was never abble to get near the top 10.
I must say, i'm very pleased to see, that pitstoptimes were pretty equal. One thing that is not is the the pistopinterval. Porsches comming in after 44 minutes, the SLS after 1h and 25 minutes. Fuel and tyres were set on 1x. A bit spreading in the pitstop intervals isn't a problem, but this is a bi to mich for my taste regarding that a like to do enduranceracing.
So pitstopintervals (guess fuel cinsumption issues) and the fast corvettes and ferrari's and the slow porsches and especialy Beamers are my main issues.
Then again, i think this mod is already very good, getting these issues right would make is perfect. Realy appriciate all your hard work. Please don't see this as negative feedback, just want to help to make the 1.0 version great.
steam version working : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=570027793
thanks bhendrik for take the time for this very good and argumented feedback , i 'm sure lgel and lestrat will make good use
because of Stratoliners feedback i also tested Ferrari, and with the default set i encountered the same problem. So i dug a little deeper in it.
Emery is right it is prone to throttle lift oversteer but with the default set when the rear gets unloaded due to a bump or curbes you loose the rear also even under power.....too much power that is. I think it's all about driving style not suiting with the provided set.
I gave it few clicks+ on the rear suspension, bit more camber rear. lowered the ride height rear a bit (1.0cm difference) and the shocks stiffer. Use the throttle like the skippy and the car became "better" for me.
became to tired now, will carry on tomorrow and look deeper into motec with this car. if i find anything i will report.
Don't wanna criticize Lgel and also not Stratoliner. Stratoliner i'm sure you can drive and know your way around. And Lgel you did an outstanding job on the physics. I'm just reporting and if i can in some way help to provide feedback to give back the joy to some who don't enjoy this anymore i'm glad.
I for sure am enjoying this mod a lot (did i say that before ), so once more thanks again all involved
edit: just to be complete. tests where done within the first 5 laps, so tires not completely warmed up. At modern Spa with semi heavy rubber.
The ferrari feels very nice and is very very fast. The mid corner oversteer is noticeable with the default setup but with small tweaks its cured. No need to bring the brake bias all the way to the front. I noticed that the sls had wrong brake bias which made the car turn around as soon as u touch the brakes.
The default sets should be a bit more understeery for the average joe otherwise they will only spin around
As for the mod, excellent job guys!!
I've had a little track time in a Ferrari 458 Italia IRL, I would think the GT3 version with racing tires would be easier to drive (within my abilities). Of course I don't have the talent to race the car like the pros but even taking it somewhat cautious in this virtual mod is nothing like the IRL 458. At the track, I was able to push the 458 almost immediately, a VERY predicable car. I got the back end out a little at first as I was over driving but nothing like this virtual car. At the end of the back stretch (approx. 125 MPH) I could stomp on the brakes with confidence - this virtual car will lock up and skid. To me, turning on low ABS and TC for this virtual 458 makes it drive closer to the IRL street 458, a car that is said to be one of the best driving super cars ever. Driving this car in a game should not be so touchy, to mimic IRL ABS and TC (like the real street and GT3 cars) should be used, in my opinion.
I don't disagree, but the real solution is not to use aids, but to fix the physics of the car. Many of the ISI cars behave in this exact manner. The 799 (Porsche) does not. It feels more authentic and planted like a real race car (real life racers would never drive cars that require extreme tip-toeing around every corner). That shows that it is possible to do in rF2. Just have to be patient while changes are made to other cars.
Even in real life, before the over specialisation of F1, two drivers of the same team had two very different setups, and very different opinions of what should be improved in the car.
A sim car is not a pure rational fact, more than half of it, is how your mind recreates it (as when you read a book, two different readers will have two very different ideas of how a character of a novel is, if asked to describe it precisely), and how you'll interpret in driving terms what your mind has created (related to your driving experience).
Our beta testers had very different opinions on the same car (as if they were driving totally different cars, which is very difficult to interpret).
And yes, no doubt, the physics reflect my personal feeling of how I would like those cars to behave (I strongly dislike understeer), and I enjoy a lot driving historic cars (BT20, Howston, and Cobras).
Don't take it as a criticism, most of us are awful pilots in real life (me included), and in some cases dangerours drivers on open roads.
My brother leaves near a track where rich owners of sport cars come to perfect their skills, those guys will boast their driving skills at every ocasion (been there, raced there, done that, my Porsche tuned by X, my Ferrari, etc.). It is pity to see them crawl around the track, day after day, the last models of sport cars are lapped by the instructors' old 1970 battered Porsche as if it had ground effect.
Some things you must take into account.
AI doesn't use:
- the same tires as you.
- the same suspension physics as you.
- not the same fuel usage as you'll get.
Depending on the car you select the rest of the AI will have different performance on the same track.
Fuel estimates weren't changed from previous version tuned by a league for endurance racing.
Give the same set of cars to three diferent leagues, and ask them to adjust fuel usage, or weight handicap the cars, and you'll get three totally different results.
Physics are open, and you are welcome to do your own adjustments.
Thanks and cheers.
Thanks for the reply Lgel.
I'm a litttle bit confuced though. Why does de ai not use the same tyres as me? There is only one option in dry races and that is the medium dry. So, what other tyre do they use?
I'll have another look today for the fuel usage. I think i understand what you're saying about league racing, but for offline racing with only the ai the huge differences can be a problem ( if the fuel usage is the real problem). To keep things short: time to go have a nice race with this great mod.
AI uses a much simpler tire model defined in the TBC file, you use CPM defined in the TGM file (not a modder option, the sim option at the moment to optimize CPU usage).
A real driver will have a given fuel usage with a given car, AI an other with the same car...
Cheers and have fun racing.
Just a short question: could it be possible that there is by mistake no auto blip funktion in the Ferrari mod?
In the mod it is not possible to drive like the driver in the video. Every downshift while hard braking is a spin...
In my player.json it is aktivated, but I gess it is only for manual gear relevant.
(I don´t have any big idea of making mods)
I've had a quick look at the 854 last night as it is my favorite car of the bunch. Only a quick look so nothing too conclusive. Seems the brakes could be the culprit here. Fronts seem to lock too easily. Lowering brake pressure helps but obviously increases stopping distance. Moving the brake bias rearward also helps to an extent. Makes the rear rotate more under braking but it's more predictable. Also noticed the brake temps are really high, doesn't seem like I would ever need or want to close the brake ducts. Will do more testing tonite and look around the Motec logs.
P.S. For you guys having problems make sure you do at least 4-5 laps before really judging the car. As per the Read-me file, once the tire temps come up it makes a big difference.
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