[WIP] Apex Modding - 1970 Sportscar Championship

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by ApexModding, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I easily did ~3'09 at old spa in third lap. Could go faster. And on top of that the car has too much aerodynamic drag. It should do ~350 at Mulsanne straight, and close to 340 at SPA, but it goes ~321 at spa and 325 at Mulsanne. So the car surely is very much too fast in turns and acceleration, probably at braking too, but when it is capable to corner so well, you need much less of brakes. Also skill surely counts, few of ISI classic cars are a bit soapy on tires (I think so too), but it shouldn't be hard to go straight... I wouldn't expect myself to do faster than 3'18 at SPA and with correct aerodynamic drag influence to top speed. Does this sound like good logic ?
     
  2. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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  3. Highlandwalker

    Highlandwalker Registered

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    I was driving the car at Road America last night and I played around with the ride height. I lowered the front and raised the back which increased the down force which reduced straight line speed slightly but increased the cornering speed in the fast corners so lap times were slightly faster and I could maintain more consistent lap times. When at La Grande I was doing 203mph - 326kph down the Mulsanne straight without slipstream, about 212mph with slipstream, I am pretty sure the real car was faster than this down the straight, I think it was in the region of 220mph.
     
  4. benborp

    benborp Registered

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    I used the heel and toe upgrade. I can't say that I noticed it as all gear changes were smooth and successful in about a dozen laps at Le Grand Circuit. I tend to grab at taller gears when pushing on in cars that use the bodged approximation of drivetrain modelling that is used in for example the Howstons, but that wasn't an issue and all downshifts were good.
    The car feels very, very stable compared to the previous version and managing weight transfer isn't as critical as the downforce dominates now. With a dialled in set-up I found the previous version well behaved and very communicative while still being a challenge to manage over a full stint, I really wanted the opportunity to race that car for 24 hours. The current version feels like it will be a different challenge - more modern, hitting optimum lap times to within a few tenths rather than responding to what the car does and where it wants to be and optimising that flow.
     
  5. jual

    jual Registered

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    what means heel an toe ? to my knowledge rf2 do not simulate manuell gear shifting.
     
  6. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    It means that while you use left foot for clutch at the same time while you are braking with right foot, you do two jobs with right foot. With one part of foot you brake, and other part of foot you use to blip the throttle to keep car stable and happy, if car doesn't have significant engine braking, then you don't really need to use much of throttle blip, or any. rF2 might not have full simulation for manual gears shifting stuff, but you if you are actually interested to simulate car, then nothing stops you from actually practicing these skills... in addition to that, gear engagement delays, and baulk torque reduction can be introduced to rF2 car physics, to make gear shifting process to be more natural process, by requiring to lift throttle more, and giving a moment for a gear to fully engage.
     
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  7. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    Nice update. Feels more like expected the descriptions of the original drivers like Brian Redman. Some of them had ARB levers behind the shifter for Adjustable Anti-Roll Bars; these were mostly an on-semi-off "switch" for rain or sometimes when the tires were near the end of life. Pretty sure those were added by teams rather than from the factory.
     
  8. jual

    jual Registered

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    the issue is, if you get no feedback from the sim you will not know if you do it in the right manner, such as using the gear before the clutch is really engaged.
     
  9. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Not really much of issue, there is feedback and way to know. You see tachometer and hear revs, you can get quite a bit of clue from that. Also in rF2 this is not random, you just need to get the timing right. Gear will engage at exactly the same time, lets say if set to ~200ms, every time.
     
  10. yoss

    yoss Registered

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    that s why we create the "hell and toe" ,too early the clutch "slide",gear don't fully engage and you directly heard that you enter gear too early because engine rpm stay high
     
  11. jual

    jual Registered

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    The point is that everybody can shift in any method and nothing happens.That is indeed the issue of Rf2 not of the mod.
    I want to see a broken gearbox if wrong shifting and banned paddles.
     
  12. Highlandwalker

    Highlandwalker Registered

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    You can't ban paddles because not every body has a shifter, I certainly don't want to spend money on a decent shifter just for a few cars and not every body has bottomless pockets. This hobby is expensive enough if you want half decent gear. I have to consider the cost of what will be the most worth while because I'm retired and only have my state pension as income. So your idea of banning paddles would be totally unfair to a lot of people.
     
  13. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    i WOULD like to see the sim account for paddles on a car that uses an H shifter. Something that slows the shifting process down so that paddle racers need the same time as an H shifter driver to up and down shift.
     
  14. Highlandwalker

    Highlandwalker Registered

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    Good idea but it would still depend whether the shifter is set to H-pattern or sequential. All the shifters I have seen the setting of each is a mechanical change so it wouldn't be possible for the program to know the difference.
     
  15. McFlex

    McFlex Registered

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    Thats the way to go for. The use of the real shifting technique should be more rewarded so that you can do faster laptimes. It would be quiet easy as you could set some kind of penalty times (longer gear engagement or clutch timings for paddel shifting). But as far as i know never has ever come up with this idea. So maybe @yoss you could be the first modding group using this technique
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
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  16. Bernd

    Bernd Registered

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    I would say that there always have been possibilities to give the paddle or automatic shifters a kind of disadvantage, since rfactor 1 was released.
    In the hdv file, there are lines like
    UpshiftDelay=
    UpshiftClutchTime=
    UpshiftLiftThrottle=
    DownshiftDelay=
    DownshiftClutchTime=
    DownshiftBlipThrottle=
    It's just up to the modders to set them in the right way.
     
  17. jual

    jual Registered

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    Maybe they can create an real and unreal Mode for all cars.In a online race the mode must be specified and exclusive.
     
  18. ChiefWiggum

    ChiefWiggum Registered

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    this is why we use the F1 1986 Simracers Version in our League, you can't shift under full throttle, you have to lift it, when not the Engine will blow up.
     
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  19. Mauro

    Mauro Registered

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    This is the solution
    For me all rf2 historic mod must have this system

    GRAND PRIX LEGENDS (1998) has this feature for upshift and downshift
     
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  20. jual

    jual Registered

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    This solves not the disadvantage of temporary one hand driving, not possible to shift in corners, miss shifts etc.
    H-shifter compared to paddles requires different driving styles.
     

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