[WIP] Apex Modding - 1970 Sportscar Championship

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by ApexModding, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. benborp

    benborp Registered

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    At that particular point he is talking about the 956 and the 962. So not proof that the dials were lit in the 917.
    Driving the 917 on longer circuits and during longer events, getting the best out of the engine and fuel does mean keeping a close eye on the tach. The rev warning light comes on long past the point of optimum peak revs. Without dash lights I have to make a note of what objects I pass at the appropriate moment during daylight and then make sure I can see enough out of the side at night in order to time my gear shifts.
     
  2. benborp

    benborp Registered

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    51NdLTQ1+-L._AC_SL1500_.jpg I now need to find a copy - not just for documentary evidence.
     
  3. JamesB

    JamesB Registered

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    Well these were both designed as endurance cars, I have only seen the 917 in the flesh at night not he Ferrari but how would a driver be ABLE to do a night stint with no illuminated gauges in the years before pit telemetry monitoring? Need to watch all the 917 videos I can find now but the one I saw years ago at Donnington had illuminated gauges, whether they were original or not I don't know, that was in the late 80's.
     
  4. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Registered

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    Ok, my bad.

    Somehow I still find it odd that 917 would not have had illuminated gauges as it was designed to run at darkness. How would have they seen if temperatures were normal if the gauges were not illuminated? And backlight dash was already use in production cars at the time.

    I know this is doable in rFactor 2. For example the GT40 Mk Iv mod has night guages. Altough there the scale is lit and not the whole gauge backlit.
     
  5. benborp

    benborp Registered

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    Considering the homologation process and the various other issues the drivers had to deal with in the early versions of the 917 I wouldn't be surprised if there were cars running without any means for the driver to see the dials.
    But yes, by the time of the 917K I'm pretty sure that would have been sorted out.
     
  6. ApexModding

    ApexModding Registered

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    Which page do you want photographed? We have 3 books on the 917k :p
     
  7. JamesB

    JamesB Registered

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    I am sure you do, so it REALLY did not have illuminated gauges? So the one I saw must have been modified. Oh well, still a modification I would like, but I also like realism as far as is practical. Well I love them whatever and I will deal with it but what we're you thinking about Porsche!
     
  8. benborp

    benborp Registered

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    All of them? Yep, I would want all of them.
     
  9. JamesB

    JamesB Registered

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    Was testing these a bit more today on some of the classic circuits, let me know if there are any others where you might like me to compare them but just for info:

    Longford Ferrari 2,06.2
    Porsche 2,05.5

    Monza Ferrari 1,26.2
    Porsche 1,26.6

    Spa Ferrari 3,27.2
    Porsche 3,29.8

    These tests were done with a field of 30 cars 15 of each AI set to 100% and the timings are based on about 15 laps of the practice session and are for the best lap of the first car of each type.
    Longford was clearly dominated by the Porsche and the race grid was effectively all Porsches at the front and Ferraris at the back, Spa was the opposite way round with Ferrari being clearly dominant much as it was at Le Mans before. The most balanced track for the two cars currently is Monza where although the Ferrari had the fastest lap, there was a real mix in the field behind, unfortunately for me, its my least favourite cct of all the historics. I know you are looking at the balancing so I just thought these figures might help. Dont get me wrong, I don't like BOP's where all cars perform the same, cars should have strengths and weaknesses at different cct's. I feel that at Le Mans the Porsche should be the dominant car looking at history and likely a similar picture at Spa, so perhaps some of the characteristics of the cars are 180 degrees from where they should be? I don't know as you have way more info than me and I know that you are working on the Porsche to this comparison is probably out of date and not useful but just thought i would post it anyway. Might not be a historically accurate pairing, but these were great to race at Longford. The track is a bit narrow in places into the first section under the bridge in particular but if there is not a pile up then after a couple of laps when the procession has broken up a bit then the racing is excellent.
     
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  10. ApexModding

    ApexModding Registered

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    It has been stated a few times before - if you peruse some of our posts in the past few pages - that the physics will be changed and that there are aspects still not to the level we want. We will gradually and properly implement improvements instead of rushing and labeling the next update "v1.00" and being done with it. The next update will see some improvements especially to tires, and in the end (as in, not this next update and only when we feel it's good enough to call 1.00) the 917K will be reasonably superior to the 512S. We are still around version 0.8 for both, let's not forget.

    We will consider providing a BOP update through the Tuning menu for anyone not interested in doing historically-appropriate racing but until we get it all right, weight penalties will need to be added on servers. This mod is just two people trying to do things right when time allows and we intend on providing the other versions of the Porsche and Ferrari, where the performance improvements will also be represented.

    Edit: here's a sneak peek. We will be redoing all liveries and the next update will feature the cars as seen in the Le Mans race
    Capture.JPG
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  11. pkelly

    pkelly Registered

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    @ApexModding - no adequate words for the exceptional efforts your team exhibits
     
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  12. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I just re-watched Le Mans on You Tube for the umpteenth time because of your mod. How Primitive it was, and it really wasn't that long ago...(or was it?) I loved hearing the soundtrack of the engines... my wife was going nuts and I was giggling like a child. Can't for the life of me understand why they felt the need for those 3 musical interludes when the choir of V-12's was far more fulfilling.
    Back to the mod. Leagues would require probably some sort of balanced performance but I like that each car excelled in different areas. It reminds me of the R&S MIII vs the SP333. Tight tracks favored the Riley's V8, open speed circuits gave the 333's V-12 a chance to breathe and really draw away. Similarly, the Porche should be the King of Le Mans, but as Mario Andretti proved at Sebring in 1970, the 512 was more than capable of winning and out performing the 917.(sneaking back to my movie introduction, compare the race at Sebring between Steve McQueen's Porsche 908 and Mario's 512 with the eventual script of Le Mans)
     
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  13. Art_Pereira

    Art_Pereira Registered

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    In 1970 the 917Ks were just a bit faster than the 512S. Just a bit in most of the tracks. However, the 917Ks and 917LH had reliability problems when the engines were overreved.
     
  14. ApexModding

    ApexModding Registered

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    We cannot promise anything due to real life schedules but we'd like to have the next update out by next week. Some subtle physics changes and massive visual overhaul - but not the last. Can't have any cleaner textures than this with about 60-75% of the logos made by hand!

    prev.jpg
     
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  15. tjc

    tjc Member

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    Wow! That looks amazing. :cool::eek::cool:
     
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  16. Dale B

    Dale B Registered

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    The car looks just awesome, can't wait,,,, but will because it will be so worth it!!
     
  17. Jyyka Pihtari

    Jyyka Pihtari Registered

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    Tried 512S today. I hope someone can make decent onboard sounds for it... When revising the physics, please check the suspension geometry, because currently it has so much bump steer, that the forces from bumps and undulations outweigh actual cornering forces.

    Re 917K, it seems to have very stiff springs (really low motion ratios?), and static camber is set like it has modern radials. I hope it gets tweaked too.

    Really appreciate the effort!
     
  18. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    Fully agree.
    I appreciate the modders effort but 512S is undriveable for me because of the sounds. Too much of immersion killer.
    On the other hand 917K has always been one of my favourite rf2 mods. This car drives and sounds great.

    Personally I would copy 917K or any other mod sound into 512 until better sounds are implemented.
    No offense ment.
     
  19. ApexModding

    ApexModding Registered

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    The ultimate goal is for the car to drive as close to reality as possible, and within our abilities and the game's to do so. A bigger physics overhaul will not take place now but there will be updates. We are also going off real life information we can get our hands on and though it may take a while to introduce it into our vehicles, we're very aware of them ;).

    20210414_132135.jpg
     
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  20. JamesB

    JamesB Registered

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    Any news on how its going? Was driving these at Rouen today really enjoyable as usual.
     

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