Anyone from ISI at E3?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Grubby, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. BrokkelPiloot

    BrokkelPiloot Registered

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    With all due respect, but I think rFactor 2 is a little bit more complicated than Octodad. I mean, what about the physics, modsystem, control schemes. What about multiplayer? Dedicated servers are most likely not possible.
     
  2. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Hmmm.. looks like the PS4 runs DirectX. Perhaps porting wouldn't be as extreme as I thought. But as BrokkelPiloot points out, you would have to solve all the issues related to rFactor being an open platform.
     
  3. mclaren777

    mclaren777 Registered

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    I don't think the PS4 version needs to be a carbon copy of the PC version. If mod support or multiplayer weren't initially supported, I doubt many console gamers would care. rF2's great content and robust physics are easily worth $20 on their own.

    However, I do think ISI should have a meeting with someone from Sony (Shane Bettenhausen, Nick Suttner, or Adam Boyes) about the possibility of development. If the meeting reveals that a partnership isn't mutually beneficial then that's one thing, but I think it's foolish to not pursue the possibilities.

    I think the rF2 community agrees that ISI needs more staff. People are constantly complaining about the pace of development, the lack of content, and the quality of the graphics. All of these perceived issues could be improved with more staff but, of course, having more staff means you need to be making more money.

    Let's do some rough math with the following variables, assuming a $20 price point...
    X = Revenue that Sony keeps as part of the publishing agreement (30% of gross)
    Y = $80k = Cost of hiring two people to handle PS4 development for one year
    S = Units sold via the Playstation Network, rF2 would be digital-only

    (20S -X) - Y = Profit

    If sales = 20k, profit = $200k
    If sales = 50k, profit = $620k
    If sales = 100k, profit = $1.32m

    And while I understand the fear that developing a console version could distract ISI from working on the PC version, I think having more money and more staff could only mean good things for the overall development of rF2. We could start to see an increase in the quality and quantity of all content. A rising tide lifts all boats, as they say. :)
     
  4. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    Some people will always complain, no matter the situation. Some people are habitual complainers if given a forum to do so.


    How can ISI compete with Forza and GT series on the console? The answer is simple, they CAN'T!!!! I'm pretty sure simbin proved it. ;)


    Edit: Should also add codemasters in there as well. ISI would get crushed in that market.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2013
  5. mclaren777

    mclaren777 Registered

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    Sure they can – the PS4 won't have a Gran Turismo game for at least a year. :)

    The only sim racing competition rF2 could possibly face in the PS4 market will come from Assetto Corsa and Project Cars, but who knows if/when those will become a console reality.
     
  6. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    No offense but your living in fantasy land if you think that is true. The console sim racer would rather play GT5 or 6 on his PS3 with it's over 1000 officially licensed cars rather than whatever ISI would put out, which couldn't even come close to the number of cars Polyphony Digital can license. ;) I just don't see little ol' ISI competing with Sony or Codemasters. :p
     
  7. Jeremy Miller

    Jeremy Miller Former ISI Senior Programmer

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    80k for two developers... Maybe in singapore or india but not likely in the US. Also add more management costs, testing costs and so on for a product that will suck sales from the PC versions so all sales cannot be concidered new.

    Of course being on the ps4 would be nice but is that really our audience? Thats not retorical i really don't know for sure. I have my doubts, GT has set the expectation for ease of play. If you compare rf with gt with a 10 minute time limit GT will win, if you give it more time rf starts to shine

    My opinion,rf2 makes progress with every update, no need and difficult to port when developing new features at this pace

    Sent from mobile device
     
  8. mclaren777

    mclaren777 Registered

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    Given that you're the senior programmer at ISI, I'm glad to hear your thoughts on the matter.

    Does developing for the PS4 interest you from a technical perspective? Is it something you would ever want to try?
     
  9. Panigale

    Panigale Banned

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    I hope rF2 sticks to being an uncompromising PC sim and available for download from the ISI website. This is probably not the path to riches and excess (compared to the GT franchise for PD) but you provide something that serious users can own (can't stress that enough) and appreciate as a high quality simulator.

    I'm new to PC sims but started with consoles (8bit Nintendo) and left GT5 looking for something better. I think the user base for rF2 might exceed expectations once more licensed content is available. That is what I felt was missing in previous gen pc sim titles like nKPro.
     
  10. Jeremy Miller

    Jeremy Miller Former ISI Senior Programmer

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    I would love todo it from a compter geek prespective and I see advantage. I was trying to point out there is not a simple equation that eliminates all risk

    Sent from mobile device
     
  11. mclaren777

    mclaren777 Registered

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    Here's another perspective: if ISI puts forth the initial investment to get its engine running on the PS4, that opens the door for future licensing of the engine to companies like Reiza Studios, should it ever want to make a console game.

    Eliminating risk is impossible and you forfeit any chance of success if you don't at least try.

    I'm simply asking for a meeting with Adam Boyes' indie team. Talk to them, and if bringing rF2 to the PS4 doesn't sound like a smart move, at least you know for sure.
     
  12. Oldie

    Oldie Registered

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  13. Bart S

    Bart S Member

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    If you cant see already the difference in target audience you never will and I have a lot to say about what it is but I just cant be bothered because it will take me too long. Its just not the same and never will be, mods, teams, leagues, plugins, hardware, RAM, CPU, GFX.
    Dude you drank too much beer and thought too much today.
     
  14. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    LOL.
     
  15. Jamezinho

    Jamezinho Registered

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    The issue here is that even within the PC gaming community - itself small compared to the console market - a game like rFactor is almost a niche product. It doesn't have mass-market appeal because of the uncompromising, less immediate, and often quirky nature of the game.

    Games like Gran Turismo and Forza offer just enough "sim" to satisfy the masses, but at their core they are video games with a huge amount of licensed content, offering career modes, grinding for credits, buying upgrades and casual online racing. All things that console gamers want.

    rFactor 2 is completely different and I think those looking for something more realistic, demanding and ultimately more rewarding, will gravitate towards the pc sim-racing scene. That's what I did after years of Forza and Gran Turismo.
     
  16. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    I would like to see rFactor2 being pushed into Steam and not PS4. That is where the real competition is now that also both pCARS and AC (maybe iRacing too) are going to Steam.

    rFactor2 has no chance in console markets as it is not essentially a game.
     
  17. LowRider

    LowRider Registered

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    PLEASE NOT again a suggestion for this stupid idea. :mad:
     
  18. mclaren777

    mclaren777 Registered

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    I think many of us share a similar story. I invested over 1000 hours into the Gran Turismo series before discovering rF1 and it completely changed my perspective on racing sims. However, I stumbled upon rF1 by sheer dumb luck – it wasn't because of marketing, word-of-mouth, or anything intentional.

    The GT series is by far the most popular franchise on the Playstation consoles. GT5 outsold the next closest game by more than 2:1 (10.7 million to 5.2 million) so there's definitely a market, especially in Europe. I'm not talking about rF2 becoming a replacement for Gran Turismo on the PS4, but if just 1% of GT5 owners purchased rF2, ISI would generate more than two million dollars in revenue.

    Simply having exposure in the PS4 online store will raise awareness to a level that ISI has before never experienced. A well-crafted demo would allow people who decide if it was worth $20, and eventually I could see PS4 owners also purchasing the PC version when they learn about the modding community.
     
  19. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    My story was I "played" with console racers but when I started driving in real life and then got into SCCA Solo2 (in 1996) I was then on a mission to find something more realistic. I found GPL and fell in love with real sims. From there I found EA F1 which led to SBDT's GTR 2003 add on for EA F1. SBDT became SimBin and the release of GTR. From there I got every SimBin title and naturally rFactor. I am sure consoles bring some people to rFactor but it seems to me like consoles bring people to games like pCARS and the Codi games more than rFactor. Console guys want to emulate the visuals more than the physics it seams. My experience from racing in leagues and running a league of my own is that most rFactor fans are older and either race in real life or have in the past or are somehow connected to race, engineers and such.
     
  20. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    Or we can all get together and donate money to ISI until they have an extra 2 million dollars. Just so they don't go console :p

    From a money perspective I don't think anyone but ISI can determine whether that's a good and realistic idea or not. Even if they have investigated this its likely they made a conscious choice not to go there. Probably for many other reasons then we can come up with.

    I'd like to think that they are dedicated simmers, and want to keep doing what they like, even if it means a bit more financial risk or what have you. I'de like to think they do it for the love of simracing.
    And imo if they would go console, the sim-racing part of it all would (eventually) be compromised.

    Do you really think a company would listen to, and cater for a few hundred old guys like us demanding realism and moar(!), whilst they are faced with 50million youngsters with more money and probably console-gaming 24/7 for the next 2 decades?
    With a bit of luck that 2million will become 7million and pretty soon Gjon will be too busy buying real estate in the Bahamas' and figuring out which private jet he wants to add to his fleet.
    And all we will be getting from Tim is ''I'm sorry, I can't hear you over all the money I have''

    So rfactor's goal shifts to the masses, and it becomes something console-gamers can deal with.
    Or, we get flooded with a million 16 year olds having no clue how to behave on-rack. and that's already an issue with the current group of simracers hehe.

    Seriously, we want ISI to remain dedicated to simracing, just like the few other companies out there whom are doing it, if it wasn't for them the only thing left for us to do was getting that PS4 and join the masses. no thx :)

    Not that anything we say here makes any difference btw :)
     

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