Anyone else concerned about MSG’s future?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jamesleegte, Apr 4, 2022.

  1. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

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    Just focus on putting more resources on fixing all those chronical bugs, fix track temperatures/tire pressures, improve driving on rain, implement new features (sparks, better smoke/spray, easy way to create server or to create mods) and rFactor2 will dust competition and sell a lot!
     
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  2. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Yes, "just" DO EET !
     
  3. Stevy

    Stevy Registered

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  4. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I got to dissapoint you but you are looking at this whole business with your sim racing glasses on. Wich is fine, but you won't sell a product like rF2 to Millions of people. They are aiming for a market that plays Codemasters F1 games, Dirt and the likes. And on top of that, you need an engine that works well on different platforms. UE is designed for exactly that and it's the reason why they used that engine for Nascar Ignition. I fear that most of us simmers completely underestimate how much bigger the console market is compared to the PC market. IIRC, Kunos had quite a few issues with porting AC1 on consoles and it's propably the reason why they went for UE with ACC.
     
  5. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    And this is why this will fail again, aiming to be shitty games like F1 or dirt series (not rally).
    Assetto corsa series both hardcore sims have made upwards of 100 millions (https://www.carscoops.com/2021/02/r...-exceeds-e100m-in-sales-across-all-platforms/).
    it is not the game being hardocore sim determines its success , its rest of the things surrounding that simulation.....mainly UI, Multiplyer, graphics, carrier mode or good progression system....all the stuff which casuals prefer over physics.
    and if u manage to get good enough in these stuff you get what kunos was able to achieve with assetto corsa.(IIRC console version has better UI), despite being a hardcore sim.

    why people buy F1 games ? because there is literally no alternative for licensed F1 product

    why dirt rally sold way more and had much positive reception than dirt 4 (arcade series) ? because this is what car guys/girls will always prefer if rest of the package is same.
    dirt 4 backfire so hard they actually made dirt rally 2 and get public faith back, instead of making dirt 5.

    Look at gran turismo 7, that game is NOT that arcade under the hood but the rest of the game is soo polished in basically every area (except they did super stupid move and added MTX).

    Also rfactor 2 has all the fake assist in the world , a 5 year old can drive a lap around nordschleife with formula pro with those enabled.

    regarding the ease of UE on porting , i can agree on that. but if my memory serves me right marcel said that rf2 engine ran quite well on console on discord msg. but please don't quote me on that....i'm not soo sure about it.

    Sim market is huge , its only that there has not been enough money thrown at it like some arcade stuff.
     
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  6. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    there's nothing much wrong with the MSG strategy of developing a game engine that runs on consoles first and PC second, building it off a "known" vehicle engine (rF2/ISImotor) and then having a cross-platform UI on UE4 on top of it. They've had issues with Ignition because, in fact, the vehicle dynamics and gameplay engine from rF2 still has many issues with AI, and those need resolving for console games to flourish: as we've been asking them to do for months/years, and now that's come and bit them in the butt. However, the rest of the UI they have built is fine by all accounts and they'll be able to add all the "experience being a driver" features like the F1 games have (contracts, vehicle upgrades and custom paints, yadda yadda) that the casual gamers want, in future versions. Using the same engine for NASCAR, IndyCar, WEC and BTCC games also makes sense, they will have cross-pollination of content (tracks) and UIs/non-driving features, and a core team able to do the content/art quickly and repeatably. We've seen they added the IndyCar IR18 here on rF2 with full liveries and such, within about 90 days. Now, they need tracks. But, they can't make this work with just DLC. How many IR18s did they sell. A few thousand at best. They've already got a lot of the WEC content (tracks, cars) but need liveries.

    But... the issue has always been, the money needed to do it. Very concerning they will run out of cash directly before year end, and before release of WEC and IndyCar titles, never mind BTCC has completely dropped off the roadmap. They invested huge resources into the first NASCAR game, and it bombed. That was supposed to fund the on-going development of the other titles from revenue. Now they have to raise more capital or take on debt. No-one is going to put more capital in, until they prove they can release a game and get sales volumes on consoles that justify it. Who is going to buy shares of a company they have already tanked? Taking on debt is a big risk. And it also eliminates any returns the original investors (stock holders) put into it. Yep, MSG are in real trouble here and only about 180 days to solve it. S397 might get sold off then in a fire sale of assets, but who will buy that as a standalone concern? Negligible revenue and PC only?
     
  7. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Don't get me wrong, I share the same sentiment as you regarding what a good racing game should offer. That said, AC is a very rare case of a racing sim being developed by a very small team being that successfull and it got even more successfull now that they sell the Ultimate Edition for a bargain. They hit the mark at the right time with the right desicions and people easily forget that it was the first "new gen" sim that offered high profile lisences like Ferrari or Porsche after those lisences had been tied to EA games for a very long time. The nice and slick presentation and easy to get into racing delivered the rest.

    That said, AC has also shown that racing sims are moving in a less sim and more game oriented direction. Physics are good enough, but the whole thing of what racing is about is very stripped down in AC (start procedures, rules, weather system, some of the physical systems, AI etc.). Would that be my dream sim? I don't know, it all comes down to what you are looking for. This is only my personal view on this, but rF2 and ArmA III are my most played games on Steam and it shows pretty well what I am looking for in a game. And I am not convinced that console games offer any of this or are made for this. When I think of a console gamer I see a guy infront of his/her TV with a controller having a quick fun ride. Not the guy who is looking for the pitlimiter button while being a bit masochistic and managing his skin packs. And this isn't meant to upset anyone or being disrespectful to console players, but there are certain things that work well and sell better on a console than on the PC platform.
     
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  8. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    give me 1 million, I will release new massive success DLCs and will earn a lot of money for rF2, give 17 millions to MSG, they will have later only 12 left.
    Not hard to understand the wasted money in the bad hands.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
  9. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Seems to me the DLC already out there sold pretty well. rF2 just doesn't have that many players, which is probably a combination of being a niche product and not being very friendly to use.

    But hey, I'm sure it would be easy to be successful. Shame ISI/S397 obviously has had no interest in being successful.

    :rolleyes:
     
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  10. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    Even when the official f1 game had Grand Prix 4 alongside it in 2002, the one with the better physics still got outside by the “shitty” counterpart over on the PlayStation.
     
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  11. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    Yes it's true that the masses don't want something too hardcore and mostly just want to have some quick fun, but they also want a challenge and a rewarding progression system (and ultimately to live out some fantasy i.e some escapism).
    Take an average gamer and tell them that rF2 was arcade, then put auto clutch on and auto pit lane exit on, I don't think they would question it. It really is not that hard, and some of the main criticism is it's too easy. I've had so many people play that aren't car people or even gamers and they've had no issue at all feeling/controlling the car (granted it's been on a wheel).
    In my simpleton one track mind it seems like an easy solution.
    1. Fix rF2 issues like A.I and so on (bang, easy done lol)
    2. Build a good GAME around the rF2 engine - i.e a proper in depth and engaging progression system/career mode that's not too grindy but that actually makes you work for results and doesn't hand things to you on a silver platter.
    3. Not too broad and overwhelming like PCars 3, focus on an smaller area and do it well. At the same time, throw in a few very desirable dream cars/locations as some kind of reward/ relief from the grind.

    Okay I've just described the game I personally want, but I reckon it'd be a best seller.
     
  12. SharD

    SharD Registered

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    .... and it became one of the worst racing games ever released.

    I really disliked the answers MSG gave on questions asked by "Millad Radman". I have no faith in this company, at all.
     
  13. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    I have to preface my comment with saying I didn't watch the video.
    But if any of it is true then RF2 is a fine sim. One of the top 2 available.
    If it's parent company goes broke due to a poor business plan and over paying for titles then a canny investor (maybe even the original owners who will say thanks for the 13m and buy it back for 1m from the receivers ) will pick it up from the corporate ashes and run things as normal.
    You have to separate the fate of the Sim from the fate of the corporation.
    Sometimes companies just get it wrong on the investment and cash flow side.
    I mean iRacing was the result of Nascar throwing away a game and Papyrus taking it on.
    RF2 isn't going away.
     
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  14. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    I'm sure it is not due to physics only.
    probably bad marketing, rest of game lacking polish etc.
     
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  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Can I assume you're not familiar with the GP series?

    (no harm, you're probably too young)
     
  16. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    no i haven't played those series.
     
  17. JuanitoRPM

    JuanitoRPM Registered

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    I always say that the real unfinished business of simracing is a true and real simulation of the "Dakar" raids. With a giant map that could be customized and improved by the community. Also the waypoints could be customizable to be able to create different stages.
    Whoever does that is going to make a lot of money.
     
  18. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

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    Only if it's supposed to drive 5 or 6 hours straight :D
     
  19. Simulation_Player

    Simulation_Player Registered

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    beamng has that kind of stuff, but ofcourse they are still in early access and needs some physics improvements etc.
    I too would love a proper modern simulator for rallying that does both tarmac and gravel physics well.
     
  20. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    they were the rf2 of their day. They had full mechanical failure simulation and the physics were the best you can get. The drivers were even using it.

    But only the enthusiasts cared for it. Fact remains, simulation will always be a niche sector of gaming, and just because you are really into it, doesn’t mean everyone else is a moron. Which is a trap sim “snobs” fall into quite a bit.
     

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