Announcement | Motorsport Games Enters Into Agreement to Acquire rFactor 2 and Developer Studio 397

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Paul Jeffrey, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    I think this will happen now tho or in the product that replaces rF2. From advanced sim or simcade route current tire model isn't making much sense even if it's an amazing piece of software.
    And S397 has a "less advanced version of rF2 tire model" (quote from Marcel on Discord) that was made for The Grand Tour Game, for consoles. Niels even made the tires for that game.
     
  2. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    For me a great proof that rF2 will remain rF2 and continue to evolve for years to come, while retaining its "simulation at the cutting edge of realism" would be that S397 continues to chain the release candidates by bringing massive changelogs regularly!!!!!!!

    Well I will tag someone..... ;) @Marcel Offermans
     
  3. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    You mean even before 2030?
    Seriously few days ago I’d say rF3 would never happen and one of the reasons is licensing issues.
    Besides rF2 is a continuously developed platform, like iRacing, DCS etc.
    Never heard someone is waiting for iRacing 2.
    But if they plan getting 10x developers to rewrite millions lines of legacy code, create new UI, replace Steam workshop, renew licenses than it would truly be rF3. But essentially developing completely new game is unlikely scenario.
     
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  4. dazzer

    dazzer Registered

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    +1000
     
  5. mschreiner

    mschreiner Registered

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    It could always be rebranded and not even have the rFactor name in it. It is all speculation right now. but I predicted Nascar heat getting Gmotor for its next version for physics. I was still surprised! LOL
    I think this is huge for both sides or they would not have done it! Motorsports Games has 600 employees so now S397 has instant resources as well.
     
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  6. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    Also, fun fact; iRacing 2.0 was a thing
     
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  7. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    I believe in pursuing rF2 for several years, of course I could be wrong, but I think it is desirable.

    The graphics engine is fine for me, but I want the shadows in particular to be improved and the rain to be optimized.

    Do you think it's quite likely that MG and S397 will forgo the existing graphics engine and put Unreal Engine in its place?
     
  8. shovas

    shovas Registered

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    This would be the worst. I've come to see that the tire model is the *only* thing keeping rFactor 2 in the discussion of top sims.

    If Niels was able to work on that tire model then I bet it's the rF1/AMS1 tire model. Also a bad idea to go back to it. It's good but it's no rF2 tire model.

    rF2's killer feature, and probably most valuable IP, is it's tire model.

    Not even it's physics although they're generally regarded as top tier they're not stand out. rF2 without the tire model is a pretty sad picture.
     
  9. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    If you changed the tire model and kept the FFB the same most people wouldn't even notice the change. If people really cared about it they wouldn't play ACC, let alone AC. They'd be all here.
     
  10. shovas

    shovas Registered

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    Nerfing the tire model would necessarily affect the FFB. It wouldn't feel the same. Changing tire model has knock-on effects.

    I think it's a little simplistic to say everybody would be on rF2 if they really cared about a tire model. For pure driving enjoyment, I drive rF2. For multiplayer, I play iRacing. For the currently most immersive and pleasant GT3 experience, i play ACC. For variety, I play AC. For oddball content, I play AMS2. For retro fun, I play GTR2.
     
  11. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    The sentence begins with an if.
    This tire model is so complex they didn't even bother to fake some tire damage (it can only be added by faking it). This model is being more an obstacle than a good point. It's a great tool for professional use where you simply want to drive and don't need to do things like damage but funny enough the pros still stick to rF1.
    But everyone believes what they want to believe. We can only wait and see anyway, but corporate business say this is done for. Nuff said.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  12. Germano Cervini

    Germano Cervini Registered

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  13. gianlucap

    gianlucap Registered

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    That article doesn't say anything more than what we already know. Both parts say that they are happy of this acquisition and that they will take advantage of the expertise, assets and technology of each other for their next projects.

    RF2, Kartkraft and their sequels will be available always for PC and not only for console. If they want to dumb down, somehow, the physics, or the tire model, or the setups, just do it on console. Leave the PC version the pro simulation that have always been.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
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  14. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    I'm sure there is a way for the S397 (and possibly ISI guys) to take the underlying game engine (gMotor) and adapt it for use in multiple different games brought to market. We already know that engine gave rise to to GTR/GTR2, AMS etc. under earlier iterations. Vehicle dynamics is vehicle dynamics. It's also clear they have multiple tire models available to them (rF1, Rf2 and probably a few interim ones) and that they have adapted the code to consoles as well as PCs with the Grand Tour game work they did. I think they can create "car models" with greater and lesser fidelity as required to fit the needs of the style of game as more simcade or "fun" types through to more hardcore sim modes. Obviously there are some issues with use of alternate controller types as well, and the need for "assists" or just processing the inputs in different ways. We've seen SMS do this with the transition from PCARS2 to PCARS3 - take the Seita tire model and 'override' some parameters each physics tick so that the values stay constant - and then AMS2 based on that full version of the tire model as well. S397 and ISI before them however never really did get a fully optimized and believable oval package - the EA NASCAR series through the latest iterations in rF2 never seem right to me, and I've never played prior version of HEAT but I've not heard good things about their vehicle dynamics, maybe gMotor will be an upgrade to whatever code they had up until now.

    I think for certain games, you can create a whole "atmosphere" around them. Pretty sure this is what the aim will be with the BTCC game, and it'll follow some of the ideas seen in the latest Codies F1 games, where more development has probably gone into the non-driving aspect than the physics side. I'm not sure what the target will be with an ACO LeMans type game. You'd have to hope that if they want to do the same, they'd at least allow the content to remain in an rF2 "hardcore sim" game variant as well. If you look at what NASCAR have done, they've allowed a bifurcation in the fact that both HEAT and iRacing are licensed and have esports type events; ACO would be smart to adopt the same approach.

    As I stated on another thread, my biggest fear is the amount of effort required to develop a graphical engine on top of the vehicle dynamics engine, and especially one based on UE4. Its an approach Sector3 took when they reformed Simbin to develop a UE4-based simulator that probably used much of the existing vehicle engine underneath, or at least that was the plan. That Assetto Corsa's team at Kunos managed to pull this off, might be due to the simpler vehicle dynamics engine they have, or lacking some game options/features like team based racing for example. Reiza elected to not go forward with the rF2 complete engine (new graphics, new tire model) and found it easier/quicker to wholesale move to the PCARS engine.

    My biggest concern of all though is going to be that resources that would have been on rF2 full time will be pulled off to work on these various other game editions/projects etc. The core team is very small. We already saw what happened with this when the team were pulled off to work for Amazon on the Grand Tour game; rF2 development slowed to a crawl. I think its probably relatively easy now to find 3D modelers and artists to work on the graphical end of the content, and all the UI overlays and even 'extraneous' non-driving game aspects. The logical path for rF2 alone probably would have been their own DX12 engine, and they'd know some of how to plug that in based on the DX9->DX11 transition they already did. If they graft UE4 on top of rF2, its a crap ton of work to do that and lots of learning to be done. There's expertise available in all the elements, but no-one in the group have ever pulled it all together from the pieces they have. Same problem in reverse for the KartKraft folks if they replace their physics engine with gMotor.
     
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  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I don't follow your logic.

    You don't need a simplified model to put simplified features on top. If they aren't going to continue delaying added features until they can do them properly (which has been the method so far, and has basically prevented new physics features being added), they can "fake"* them on top of the core tyre model and end up with something better than those same features on top of a simpler model.

    It's not an either/or situation.

    *"fake" is too black & white; every level of simulation is fake, nothing is perfect. If you can get close enough to correct people won't know the difference, the only issue here being everyone can see how rF2 works which breaks the spell. iRacing could be running Screamer Rally physics with enough added parameters and tweaks to fill the gaps and no one would be any the wiser...
     
  16. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

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    The main question is: How can you make money with rfactor2?
     
  17. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    In my opinion this tire is making it more complicated for some features (like limited set of tires). Then there is also processing power being a problem even on powerful processors when mixing with many AIs and in some cases even solo (but that's a bug) and considering they want this on consoles...
    My bet is this tire model is gone in favor of some simplified version taking the route Reiza did with AMS1. Time will tell.
     
  18. gianlucap

    gianlucap Registered

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    The CEO of MG interviewed about the incoming BTCC game. This game is supposed to be the first one that will use the tech and expertise from the Kartkraft and RF2 teams.
    From minute 8:05 what interests us.
    Not an "hardcore sim", but also not an arcade. :rolleyes:
     
  19. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    I’d not worry
    If the strengths of rfactor 2 were taken away what would be left for EVERYONE invested

    rfactor 2 should continue to be polished
    +offshoot titles with additional & specific focus -why not -I’d buy the ones of interest to me

    Obviously fully featured & no compromise on rfactor2’s tire/ffb/physics otherwise they’d just be average type of titles of which there’s already many
    ( the now many & dire “simcade” titles etc )

    if they play it right it’s good news for all
     
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  20. Mitch9

    Mitch9 Registered

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    Or rather, can you keep rf2 alive without making a lot of money out of it?

    I do think there might be a risk of rf2 dissolving into the other games in the long run, but really if you´re pushing other games on a yearly basis and making enough money out of those maybe you don´t need to nerf the main physics platform but rather keep it as a valuable product for the more "hardcore" gamers, as it has been done so far.
     
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