Am I the only one thinking payware could be rFactor2's death knell?

Not really, there are ways and this is applyed by many game dev now and it was in the past and before somebody will do any trouble to anybody i can ensure you that game dev will get it before any modder.

 

If all you want is content in numbers, then there won't be any issue at all. It'll be just like rF1: LOADS of extremely poor, mostly ripped, content. For free. Enjoy your mess. (I honestly don't understand why anyone would embrace mediocrity? Everyone bangs on about how amazing the rF physics engine is, then loads it up with terrible content? That's ridiculous.)

Many of us want quality content. I don't care if it's free or if I have to pay for it. If it's good, and it's something I'll enjoy driving, I'll get it. Quality > quantity. Every time.

Also; if someone makes a mod with copywritten content and tries to sell it; that's their problem. Not mine. Why are people playing the role of corporate champion, saying that those modders are going to get in trouble? Are you part of the legal team for those companies? You're perfectly fine with free copywritten content (which is just as illegal, most just turn a blind eye because it's not worth their trouble), but as soon as you have to pay for your illegal wares you cry foul? The hell?

That's exactly what SMS is trying to do with pCARS, and most of this forum just bashes the product. That is, quite literally, exactly what they are doing. Thing is, the sim community is a fickle bunch. Many people claim one title and defend it against all others and call everything else crap. If anything, that will be the ultimate cause of death of simracing.

You may not think their physics are the greatest, but as the sim community has proven, that's a purely subjective trait anyways. Everything else they're doing, though, fits that bill entirely. Don't forget, too, that that whole train began as a modding group, as well. "Excellent driving" varies from one sim community to another and indeed within one community even. Not one game will come and make everyone happy. That's absolutely impossible. Me? I'll enjoy AC, rF2, LFS, pCARS and RBR. Why pick? They all fit a different bill.

 

LOL, this is a sim forum, not a simcade forum.

 

I not seen the part that i want numbers over quality, i talking about the numbers of mods(free and pay) in future will grow up like rf1 instead the OP ask about the death knell of rf2, but, it doesnt mind that i prefer numbers over quality, i prefer the last, like you.

 

LMAO!!!!
You should have started video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NGr6wRXkI-w#t=76s


".... one day we're going to get so HI$H HI$$$$H" lol

 

Thanks for proving my point for me. They are developing exactly what you described, but you're just bashing it. The physics model isn't perfect, but either is rF2's. It's still in development, and it's being developed by members of a team that was regarded as one of the best modding teams before they went commercial, with assistance from professional drivers.

You are a perfect example of the problem. Payware mods won't kill simracing, close-minded elitists will. There is no perfect sim, because absolute perfection is ficticious. pCARS ticks all the boxes, you just don't agree with the criteria based on which those boxes are being deemed filled or not. pCARS is no less sim than rF2 is. It's got it's flaws, but it's not an arcade game. Just like every single other title that ever has been, and ever will be released.

 

pCARS is nowhere near the rF2 in terms of driving, thats a fact. Not because i say so, but because of different developers knowledge and different developers goals and passion. I mean, you can easily fell how deep is development in terms of diving in rF2 compared to pCARS. Opposite you can easily see where go most development in pCARS, which is perfectly fine, if you want build good looking racing game and look it that way.

 

LOL again.

Look champ, pcars doesn't drive like a sim, that it has better GFX and weather only make it a better weather simulator, but I'm interested in driving sims.
There's nothing wrong with being a sim elitist except in the minds of the xbox crowd, a crowd who know nothing about sims or gaming in general.

pcars is going to be Shift3, so stop talking utter BS about it being a viable simulator.

 

Sorry, facts are out when it comes to the new age simcade brigade, in their special world, a sim is any game that puts a smile on their face.
Things like FFB weight and detail, detailed physics including fulltime weight transfer only get in the way of their smiling.
Dealing with weight transfer, especially under brakes is tricky, so this is excluded from simcades games as the major aim is smiles per hour.

 

Theres no "payware" worth paying for anyways so why all the bickering and pissing contests

 

And that is why exactly? Explain us exactly why modders work is worthles in youre eyes? Youre basicly loving mods, having fun with them but the time and everything around is not worth?

 

.

 

All of a sudden modders have no time to mod anymore (unless it's for money), lol sure.

All of a sudden nodding is too complex, unless you get paid, lol sure.

All of a sudden the hobby of, and the passion for simracing, computer software, artistry, sound design, etc isn't enough, it all revolves around money now, lol sure.

Most delusional set of opinions I've ever heard. Who are you to say thats someones passion/hobby/general interests in modding are suddenly not enough of a driving factor? Who are you to say that all of a sudden things are too complex and technical to mod (unless you get paid)??? WHO ARE YOU???

RFactor 2, Game Stock Car 2012, Assetto Corsa, Netkar Pro, and iracing, are all proper, real, true sims. You may not like some of the "feel" of one, or the physics of another, and therefore you choose one, or some, over others, sure, we all do that, as we all have our own expectations and preferences, but almost noone would dispute that fact that those are all proper true-sims (even if you are not a fan of one).

Project car's however is a different story, you can feel parts of the physics that still, to this day spawn back from the shift games, you see/feel things in the physics that are common with many other arcadey/sim-cade games, you can tell things feel overly basic/simplified/linear, etc etc etc.

The only people that I can see thinking pcars is a true sim are people that have only ever played console games and/or simbin titles.

 

lol


There is no I in Forever "You and Me"

Yeah....... it ain't a payware forum either.

lol




As software users most of us are going to lean one way or another with bias, some with proviso, others again will not care and 3G which mods they like, full licence, no licence, ripped hacked no permission whatever.

I would like to see a panel of the top mod, team and development people share their thoughts on the subject.


Most of all I would like for it to remain on your payware sites.
If you were selling enough you would not be here defending position.

 

I think the modding is just as hard as what you make out of it. When I compare rF2 ISI content (cars) with rF1 ISI content, I don't see so big change. Add few polys here and there and larger textures, that's about it. What I believe has made modding difficult and very time consuming is the new pCARS / AC approach with their 200K poly LODX models. Now every modder thinks that this is the benchmark we should aim for.

Truth is that we should still aim for "less" detail but better performance to have great driving experience. Take a look at feels3 tracks, great performance AND great detail. And how many tracks he has released already? Only by himself. This is what we should see in car modding as well.

Feel free to do 200K cars for rF2, but I'd say that they are useless. You only but yourself into a box where you need to make big bunch of LOD's (this is what takes time) so that the mod is even driveable. I know there are people who like to have good looking screenshots and replays, but then you are better off with AC or pCARS. In the end, screenshots and replays have nothing to do with driving.

Textures, people, textures. That's where the magic at.

---

Now what truly is difficult is the car physics work, but guess we always forgot that when looking at how many polys there are in the bolt in the chassis which is never visible. I admire pCARS models as they a very interesting to look at because of all the detail, but in the actual game you miss it all. Better off with pCARS forums development threads.

I also feel that track making is a bit more difficult with new RealRoad thingy, at least I have not gotten my head around that stuff yet. Then again, billboarding for example makes many other things much easier and faster.

 

@Johannes Rojola you are wrong there with those 200k polys for LodX, few computers let those run only from 10 cars plus not even talking about soe series full grid. You dont need to go so high with the polys and for sure we will not even try.
ISI content from rf1 to rf2 is actually still the same but there are problems actually with those. Sorry but that was previus content and if you go looks to the Camaro WIP you will see its far higher in polycount than any other ISIs cars in rf2 sofar and this is benchmark.
Tell me wich models in rf2 are actually done with 3d body lines and other details in rf1 that are not ripped? I think ive see 2 cars scratch made of for exaple ripped content from Shift.
You want to go and do textures, sorry this is just overpainted later and if we do that and you just get the cartoon looking cars and than we basicly dont need any grafical updates to rf2 or any other game.

@Spinelli how many mods did you build over all those years. I would say none that you would actually know how much is something worthed, how much time is needed and that it even can cost money to us.

 

Edit one more time youre post, it wasnt enough yet.
And you would be surprised how much we sold allready and that buyers are still coming. Just becase i defending sommething some people have no idea about and never tryed something it doesnt mean its going well. If you dont want us here than you dont need to be here and or you dont need to look to our threads, its simple.

 

C'mon, HistorX for example looks cartoony to you?

 

Isnt there alot actually from gt legends game? And many later cars were done in that way of polycount, that is bit to low, sorry.
A game like rf2 needs to be pushed forvard and when you overpaint a car you dont get the life in those cars as the shaders cant do the magic, yet rf2 shaders and lightning need work but if we want to stay on those old than we can stay on those older games to.
Combination of self shadowing, real reflection needs better 3d models and less texturing. For rf2 pcars cant be compared to grafical. Both are going diferent direction and polycounts are 1-10 diferent but basic rf2 car model needs to get better to all gmomtor previus games, its the point to improve, advance from older games, if not, hell, than we can all stick with rf1, gtr2 or gt legends.

 

It seems you are bitter with the criticism you got with your payware mod.
I'd take anyday a Historic GT conversion over a not-DTM mod. You talk about polycount, but if the physics aren't there, your mod will only be a screenshot making mod (pCars is very good at that). At least, the Historic GT cars have character and are fun to drive whereas DTM is... meh.

Anyway, good for you that you are making money now, but I've seen better guys than you out of money and having to find something else to do. Enjoy till it lasts