I know all those things guys. If you properly read my previous long post before I bumped it up, I am saying. B1080 offline 0% crash when alt tabbing B1098 offline 100% crash when alt tabbing. I provided new info regarding latest build having worsened the issue where there was no issue before. Saying that it happens in other games will not solve the issue nor help doing it. Understanding what it triggers might. I would have expected other people confirming the issue and supporting that the devs took some time to solve this. I simply do not resign to use borderless as a league admin. I cannot afford 20% fps loss. Enviado desde mi ONE A2001 mediante Tapatalk
exactly this, Alt-Tabbing has been the bitch to many games over many years, it's not singularly located in RF2, simple solution...DON'T ALT-TAB!
Can't you read either? If you don't have anything to add that helps solving the issue please don't post. I am really tjred of people like you spoiling other people's effort. You did provide your wish list. Would you like others start bitching at your requests? The do not do so with others requests. Your argument is stupid. Dk you want me to find games where you can alt tab without problems? Enviado desde mi ONE A2001 mediante Tapatalk
Would it help if other people confirmed they had alt-tab crashes offline in Build 1080? Or are you just saying that because it behaved differently for you there must be something to look at? (not without merit if so, just asking)
For sure it would! It would be important to know in those cases if external plugins are being used. However, I would like to know if someone has tried reproducing my behaviour. It is quite easy if you still have B1084. Is it my behaviour normal? If others tried and reported we would now. If everybody is just willing to talk without trying anything we will be in the same situation forever. As I have repeated many times. Knowing what triggers the issue should help sorting it out. Enviado desde mi ONE A2001 mediante Tapatalk
I take it you've also tested build 1084/1080 alongside 1098 recently? To rule out windows updates etc being a factor?
I've been alt-tabbing for an hour now. rF2 doesn't crash on my end. I've been alt-tabbing during loading a track: when i go back the loading screen is gone. But once everything is loaded, everything is fine again. I've been alt-tabbing during replay, practice, race, quali, switching sessions. Loading different programs during alt-tab. Explorer, google chrome, even gjed and loaded a track in gjed. Everything is fine on my end. (Lucky me) The only thing i noticed: if i alt-tab and alt-tab back to rF2 very quickly. I'm stuck at desktop and rF2 is running in the background. I can't do anything but restart my PC. My windows, graphic drivers and geforce experience are up to date and default. I use ccleaner to clean-up files and register. another thing i did awhile ago is use DDU to uninstall windows 10 nvidea graphic drivers. DDU asks to disable windows 10 graphic drivers updates. So i keep my graphic drivers up to date with geforce experience. I don't have any rF2 plugins. Dropbox sync, onedrive sync, geforce, steam, ccleaner are programs that are running on the background. If someone can't alt-tab without a crash 100%. That's interesting case to investigate what could potentially cause the issue.
Calm down please and re-read what has been written before you. It really is quite simple, Alt-Tab causes issues in many games, the simplest solution is to simply not do it and/or run n Windowed mode. This is obviously a difficult one any devs to "fix", if it was easy then it would've been fixed in many games years ago and we wouldn't suffer the issue now. Accept that not everything is fixable, you've made your point, you've made your wish, let the devs do the rest
Hate to be repeating myself, but any chance that you are using a plugin or you have a leftover modified d3d9.dll file? Of all my alt-tab crashes, I would say at least 90% are related to trackmap plugin which uses an edited d3d9.dll, I would guess most crashes for other people happens because of this plugin as well. In my other installation without plugins I don't reckon I've had alt-tab crashes offline.
Not in my case. No strange d3d9.dll. No track map pluging. No external plugins when using B1098 and having 100% alt tab problem. Enviado desde mi ONE A2001 mediante Tapatalk
I have some important corrections to make to what I stated in previous posts. The good news is that some of the problem triggering causes have been isolated. The 100% chance ALT TAB problem triggering with B1098 vs. B1084's 0% chance is not build related. Despite I was using the same mod (Simtek's GT3 Series 6 vehicles packed in a single rfcmp), I was selecting different cars in each build. Since I had selected no opponents for fps benchmark repeatability the car I selected was the only one being loaded. Yesterday, I made B1084 100% fail after first ALT TAB in single player mode. After several tests, I have checked that 2 of the 6 included vehicles trigger the ALT TAB problem These two vehicles are: F488 and Bentley. The remaining 4 work fine: Camaro, AMG, Huracan and McLaren I have been trying to find what in those vehicles is causing the issue. So far, my biggest finding is the following: Some GMTs are triggering the issue. As I will prove later, it is certainly not the only possible cause. What gave me the clue was the fact that you can also trigger the ALT TAB problem while in the spinner (tuning)! I gave it a try to force the ALT TAB problem without even loading the track, and I checked that the F488 would still trigger the problem with the first ALT TAB. On the other hand, in the spinner, the Bentley would accept continuous ALT TABbing without failing! So I decided to check if one of the gmts being loaded was causing the issue. Doing this for the "spinner gen file" is miles more affordable than with the "main gen file" due to its much reduced size. First of course I made a backup file of the original spinner gen file. Later I erased all instances being called after "Actor=VEHICLE" except for the fisrt one and packed&installed the modified component. The modified vehicle would accept alt tabbing! So I started to reinclude the instances until the problems was triggered. The first GMT in the list that triggered the issue was "488_GT3_CHASSIS_LODA.gmt" I tried to remove only this instance from the original file but it seems not to be the only problematic gmt. I will try to determine exactly which of the gmts in the spinner gen file trigger the issue. If I find more problematic gmts I will update this post with the new findings. When I have opened the triggering object with 3dsimed, I haven't found anything weird in it. That's why I would like to see which other examples of problematic gmts I still have no idea what should I be looking at those gmts to check for similarities and differences with working ones. I will probably have to make some more experiments with those elements in order to disregard theories about possible origins. Offline vs Online I have tested joining the server with different cars being the only driver at that moment. The problem would be triggered for the same 2 cars as for single player mode. Only one ALT TAB needed. For the other 4 cars I could ALT TAB as many times as I wanted without triggering the issue. Hence, it seems that the fact of online appearing more sensitive is because it usually loads a larger number of cars, increasing the problem likelihood. Gladfully there seems to be no difference between single player and multiplayer modes. Other causes I would also like to confirm my previous statements regarding Gerald's TV plugin to be triggering the issue. If I include that plugin the ALT TAB problem will be triggered in the first try (no matter the selected vehicle). In this case, it induces the problem with previously working cars and disappears when removing the dll from the plugins folder (no need to remove the "GRTvPlugin folder" that goes in the player folder) In this case and since I have zero understanding about plugins, I didn't even try to analyse the dll. If someone tries to reproduce the problem it would be nice that he shared his results. If you have Simtek GT3 mod installed it should be quite quick to test. As I said you don't even have to load a track. In the vehicle selection menu select a F488 and press Tuning. While the vehcicle is in the spinner ALT TAB to desktop and try to ALT TAB back to game. Does it fail in your end? Does it fail when you pick any of the other 5 selectable vehicles? The complete test would include trying to induce the problem after loading the track when selecting the F488 or the Bentley with no opponents
Alt-tabbing while the Simtek F488 was on the spinner created an unuseable desktop and would not alt-tab back. Alt-tabbing while the other Simtek GT3 cars were on the spinner worked normally. That's all the testing time I can put in tonight.
I have been making further investigation to understand what triggers the issue with Simtek's F488. The gmts that triggered the issue had the following characteristic in common: they were all pointing at textures contained a period (.) within the name. After I renamed the textures by removing the period and repacked the component, the alt tab problem was solved for both spinner and ingame for f488. I now need to track the error with Bentley ingame (doesnt crash in spinner so the problem should be in a gmt in the main gen file). I haven't seen textures with weird names in this case. This might take some time but gladly another source of the problem will be found soon. Enviado desde mi ONE A2001 mediante Tapatalk
1. Simtek's Bentley This evening I have been able to find the cause for Simtek's Bentley to trigger the ATI (Alt Tab Issue) The problem in this case was provoked by a material(BRAKELIGHT_BENTLEY_GT3) (which apparently ¿cannot find? the texture file for the last frame of the animation sequence (0,1,2). There was another material (HEADLIGHT_BENTLEY_GT3) which worked fine pointing at the same library texture file (BENTLEYGT3_LIGHTS_GLOW.DDS) but that its animation sequence was shorter (0,1) The files that are actually available are BENTLEYGT3_LIGHTS_GLOW.DDS(1KB), BENTLEYGT3_LIGHTS_GLOW00.DDS (1KB), BENTLEYGT3_LIGHTS_GLOW01.DDS(84KB) and BENTLEYGT3_LIGHTS_GLOW02.DDS(84KB) Since I wasn't sure what was the problem, I "fixed" it by applying animation sequence (0,1) 2. rF2 Multi Player Mode I have to go back on this topic since I could reproduce it several times today with combos working perfecty in single player mode. I am quite loss about what could be causing this issue, which is historical and apparently not mod related. Considering that other plugins have proven to trigger the ATI, I would consider checking any plugin that might be only used in multiplayer mode. I would also emphasize (could be a hint) about the fact that, unlike the other ATI triggering issues I have reported, in this case the ATI doen's occur 100% of the times you hit ALT+TAB. In some cases it seems difficult to trigger it and sometimes it crashes very quickly. The bugged car components would provoke the ATI in the very first attempt of resuming rF2 from Windows. 3. Compilation of Causes and Fixes I have made a compilation of all the known of ATI triggering causes. Apart of the already commented ones, I have found several cars within the Appex Modding GT3 mod triggering the ATI. I have still had no time to trace those ones yet. When I have some time I'll try to find the casue/fix. We are using that mod for the upcoming 24hrs of Nurburgring. I can also confirm that Flat6 and BTCC are ATI free. I may make a list with the most popular ATI free mods. I would expect that the proble could also occur track related. Hopefully this helps to build a better understanding of the issue and a final solution to it. Let's make rF2 ATI free! View attachment 20980
@Euskotracks I am following along here, and passing anything on that might be useful. Thanks for your time reporting
Whenever I run ISImotor stuff with the default graphic engine I just run windowed mode to avoid having crashes, this engine just sucks on alt tab.
Well, the idea of this post is that this issue gets sorted. As you suggest, it is a historical problem coming from rF1 times! Furthermore, as many users have also remarked, it doesn't affect exclusively rfactor series but other games as well. From my POV it is unconceivable the approach that this bug has received. Instead of working in order to sort the issue, it seems windowed mode was developed as a first try to address this issue. It might not be the reason for developing it, but I cannot think of a reason for its usefullness if fullscreen mode would have worked flawless. For one reason or the other, this alternative mode was not a valid workaround for every user. Several user historically reported screen cutting and fps loss. More recently, ISI released borderless mode, which prevented the screen cutting problem of windowed mode. Unfortunately, it maintained the fps loss problem (seems to affect an unknown number of users due to the poor feedback). I wish that all that time that was spent in developing first windowed and more recently borderless modes had been spent in fixing fullscreen mode. This is not only IS's problem for sure, but of the community that never really pushed in this direction. Furthermore, several people have been systematically jumping at any thread where this topic was addressed trying to convince the people claiming for solutions that there was no bug to be solved. Since I think the Alt Tab Issue is a solvable problem, as I think the fact of Single Player being ATI free demostrates, I am trying to provide as much information as i can gather about it and present it here. Hopefully some other may join and provide their inputs. Plugin developer and Game developer feedback is highly appreciated considering that all pending unexplained ATI triggering causes are not mod related. So far, only one person has provided some feedback. This confirms the absolute lack of hope/interest of many that this issue gets finally sorted. Despite many people, just as yourself, have confirmed the ATI, most of those seem to be fine with alternative display modes. I wonder how many of them are suffering the fps loss problem but they don't even know because they didn't make a simple fps benchmark... After the boring speech, I will cotinue reporting my latest findings regarding the already reported ATI triggering causes and some other things I have also been testing. I have updated the image with the casues and fixes of the ATI's caused by AM's GT3 cars. As you can check, all the ATIs were caused by a similar issue triggering the Simtek's Bentley related ATI. Again, apparently correctly defined animated materials using 0,1,2 frames in the animation sequence provoke the ATI. Modifying that sequence to 0,1 fixes the issue. Beware that in some materials there are two 0,1,2 sequences to be changed within the same material. So far 5 out of the 6 cars that were provoking the ATI are due to the same cause (using 0,1 2 sequence for animated materials). As I said, the required file for the last frame of the sequence seems to be correct but for however reason it provokes the ATI. I haven't checked if there are other materials using 0,1,2 sequence in the animation sequence, which work fine. It would be interesting to know developers comments about this... I have also tested some more plugins in Single Player Mode. I have to say that only the previoulsy reported TV plugin triggers the ATI 100% of the times. Motec, Delta Best, AutoCam, CursO Radar, Track Map do not trigger the ATI. However, one comment needs to be done about Track Map. If you have Track Map plugin activated when running an ATI triggering car, rF2 will crash when you alt tab back to game! I thought this detail was interesting... Since it is changing the way the ATI presents, could the whole issue be related to d3d9.dll. Well, I just tried and Track Map's d3d9.dll has something definetely to do with it. If I remove TrackMap plugin dll from bin64/plugins maintaining d3d9.dll under bin32, the crash occurs when alt tabbing back when using an ATI triggering item. According to this I would suspect that the ATI related to rf2 MultiPlayer Mode is related to some dll being used exclusively there and not in SinglePlayer Mode. I hope it helps By the way, if someone is interested in testing , here you can find the updates that: fix ATI for AM's GT3 fix ATI for Simtek's F488 and Bentley View attachment 20992
